Everyday Conversations on Race for Everyday People

In this conversation on race, Lee Mun Wah, a Chinese-American man, and Dr. Joel Davis Brown, an African-American man, talk about racism against Black and Asian people.

Key topics:

• Stereotypes, and their root causes between African-Americans and  Asians.
• Lee Mun Wah recounts issues amongst men from different races and ethnicities when he produced the groundbreaking film on race, “Color of Fear".
• Mun Wah shares the stereotypes he heard about Black people when he grew up.
• Joel shares stereotypes he heard about Asians growing up from the people around him.
• The problems with Asians being considered “model minority” by white people.
• Joel and Mun Wah talk agree that communities of color are missing the opportunity to talk to each other. 
• How white supremacists create, perpetuate and benefit from conflict and misunderstandings between Asian and Black people.
• Why it’s important for Black and Asian people to not just focus on white people, but spend time becoming better allies against racism.
• Early movements of third-world unity including Black people, Asians from different ethnicities, Native Americans, and LatinX people, as well as working in a coalition with progressive white people.
• Racist, stereotypical messages immigrants get about other groups before they come to the US and how those messages cause stress, conflict, and racism.
• The dangers of Black people being stereotyped as “model activists”.
• What African-Americans and Asians can do to create unity, learn from each other, and show support to end racism.

Lee Mun Wah is an internationally renowned Chinese American documentary filmmaker, author, poet, Asian folk teller, educator, community therapist, and master diversity trainer. He is the Executive Director of StirFry Seminars & Consulting, a diversity training company that provides educational tools and workshops on cross-cultural communication and awareness, mindful facilitation, and conflict mediation techniques. His first documentary film, Stolen Ground, about the experience of Asian Americans, won honorable mention at the San Francisco International Film Festival. His most famous film about racism, The Color of Fear, won the Gold Medal for Best Social Studies Documentary and in 1995, Oprah Winfrey did a one-hour special on Lee Mun Wah’s life and work that was seen by many.  His latest film, If These Halls Could Talk, was just released.  The film’s focus is on college students and their experience with racism and other diversity issues in higher education.  Thousands of people from government and social service agencies, corporations and educational institutions have taken Lee Mun Wah’s workshops and partnered with Stirfry Seminars & Consulting on their diversity initiatives.

Dr. Joel A. Davis Brown is the Chief Visionary Officer of Pneumos LLC, a management consulting and coaching company based in San Francisco, USA, specializing in cultural intelligence, leadership, change management, and strategic storytelling. As a change agent, Joel works strategically with organizational leaders to cultivate innovative, creative, and adaptive environments where the cultural genius of everyone can be harnessed and leveraged successfully. In particular, Joel works with organizational clients to foster psychological safety, healing, belonging, and transformation. His work spans five continents and his mission is to facilitate liberation for every global citizen.

Best known for his critical analysis, creativity, humor, and an ability to build consensus, Joel has partnered with Fortune 500 Companies, non-profit organizations, and government agencies to help them achieve sustained growth and organizational breakthroughs. His clients have ranged from LinkedIn to the United Nations, and his “sweet spots” have included men’s leadership, LGBT inclusion, interpersonal dialogue, and intercultural communication.

Contact information:
Facebook: www.facebook.com/Pneumos
Twitter: @joelabrown7
Website: www.pneumos.com
LinkedIn: www.linkedn.com/in/joelanthonybrown

In this Conversation on Race, I’m joined by Pam Grimm, who talks about her experiences as a  a Black woman in the fitness world. She’s 62 years old, has been teaching fitness since she was in her 50’s and says it’s never too late to get in shape. In this episode, she shares why getting shape is so important for everyone, and especially women of color.

Pam has been in recovery from drug addiction since 1993. In 2013, she decided to focus on fitness. And I'm telling you, this woman is fit.  She is the author of two books,  “#empowered: 90 Days of Enlightenment” which offers encouragement and spiritual inspiration, and #empowered: A Gratitude and Affirmations Journal

She is a certified personal trainer with the International Sports Sciences Association, a certified Group X Instructor, and a certified lifestyle wellness coach. 

Key topics:

• Her story of recovering from drug addiction
• Her journey from drug addiction to fitness instructor
• Women and fitness
• How to get fit in the virtual world
• Her motto “Don't let your head tell you what you can't do”
• How to get your body to move
• Her thoughts on being a Black woman in her 60’s teaching fitness
• Black women and body image
• Why getting in shape is revolutionary for women, especially women of color
• Health care disparities and medical myths about Black people
• How self-care is a weapon against racist medical policies
• How to get started now even during Covid

About Pam Grimm

Pam Grimm is a corporate fitness instructor and currently teaches classes for corporations and individuals.

She is  also a personal trainer and a health & wellness coach. Her training focuses on strength, flexibility and balance in order for her clients to become the best version of themselves.

Contacts

www.pamgfitness.com

https://www.linkedin.com/in/pamela-grimm-39670a38

https://www.instagram.com/pamg_fitness

In this conversation on race Deanna Singh talks with me about growing up Asian-Indian, and African-American in Wisconsin.

Key topics include:

• Deanna’s experience with parents from two different cultures
• What it was like to be one of only two kids of color in an all-white school
• The beauty and joy of talking about race
• First experience with overt racism at the age of five from another five-year-old
• Impact of last four years with Trump et al. on young people of color and her vision for the future
• Founding a publishing company for books with children of color
• Her life experience- the lynching of her Black great grandfather
• Aftermath of 9/11 on her family and her Sikh father who wears a turban, 
• The attack on the Sikh Temple and effect on her friends and family
• Why she believes in the triumph of love to fight racism and inequity

About Deanna Singh

Deanna Singh is a highly respected thought leader who travels the world motivating and educating audiences about living with joy and purpose. A gifted communicator, she is a champion to marginalized communities and an inspiration to all those who want to be agents of change in their work, lives, and society.

Singh earned her Bachelor of Arts in Urban Studies from Fordham University, a Juris Doctorate from Georgetown University, a Master’s in Business Administration from the University of Wisconsin, Madison, and certification in Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion from Cornell University. She has impacted the world as a speaker, a teacher, a principal, a leader of large foundations, a social entrepreneur, a businesswoman, an author, a publisher, and a mother.

Contact Info:

Website: www.deannasingh.com/about-deanna-singh

Facebook: www.facebook.com/deanna.singh.10

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/Deannasingh1

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/deannasingh

LeRon Barton, author, speaker and social media influencer joins me in this conversation on race to talk about his perspective as a Black man in the US on the Capitol riots.

Topics include:

• White riot insanity at the Capitol
• How white people’s insurrection demonstrated the history and present state of racism in the US- it’s still here
• If the rioters had been Black most would be dead, but because they were almost all white they were allowed to take over the building, threaten lawmakers and physically attack cops and other people who tried to stop them
• The attack on the Capitol is treason, sedition and fascist
• Why participants need to be prosecuted to the extent of the law and not allowed to continue
• How some people in congress, law enforcement and other government employees aided and abetted the rioters
• Why some Black, Brown, Asian and Jewish people support the racist actions of Trump and the white racist insurrection
• How individualism and the mindset of not caring about anyone else but oneself permeates the US culture and perpetuates the spread of COVID
• The different experiences, opportunities and outlooks between ADOS (African Descendants of Slaves,) and Black people from Africa

About LeRon Barton

LeRon L. Barton is a writer from Kansas City, MO currently living in San Francisco, Ca. A graduate of Paseo Academy of Fine Arts, LeRon is the author of two books, “Straight Dope: A 360 degree look into American Drug Culture” and “All We Really Need Is Love: Stories of Dating, Relationships, Heartbreak, and Marriage.” In addition to the books, LeRon is an essayist; whose topics cover racism, mass incarceration, politics, gender, and dating. These works have appeared in Salon, The Good Men Project, Elephant Journal, East Bay Times, and MoAD. LeRon has also given talks and speeches at TedX Wilson Park, University of San Francisco, Glide Methodist Church, been a guest of Al Jazeera’s The Stream, Story Corp, Dr. Vibe’s Do You Know What Time It Is podcast, and has participated in panel discussions on race and prison recidivism. In his spare time, LeRon mentors young men in San Francisco and loves to backpack around the world.

www.leronbarton.com

Facebook.com/LeRonLBarton
Twitter.com/MainlineLeRon
Instagram.com/leronlbarton

In this conversation on race, I’m joined by Joel A. Davis Brown to talk about why he has hope for the future as a Black man, why he's ready for the Covid vaccine, advice for Joe Biden and more.

Key topics in this episode:

• Why it’s important for Black and other BIPOC people to have hopes for the future
• How Biden can make a difference if the Democrats get control of the senate and the consequences to democracy if they do not
• The real reasons that Black people have concerns about the vaccine for COVID 19 and what needs to be done to allay those fears.
• Why Dr. Joel A. Davis Brown is glad for the vaccine.
• How to respond to people who claim Joe Biden is a white supremacist
• Why deciding not to vote is often a sign of privilege
• What to say when someone says Kamala Harris doesn’t like Black people.
• The truth about the Black, LatinX and Jewish people who support Trump.
• Advice, music playlist and reading recommendations.

In this conversation on race I’m joined by Diversity pioneers and original thought leaders Lee Mun Wah and Howard Ross to talk about the current state of diversity, racism and white supremacy in the US today

Howard is known for his cutting edge work on implicit bias and Mun Wah made the ground breaking film on race, Color of Fear.

Key Topics:

• Origins and current state of the Trump executive order banning diversity and inclusion training in the government and companies that do business with the government.
• Threats against Howard Ross and his family for his work in diversity, equity and inclusion.
• The content of the letter suspending Mun Wah’s training with the government calling diversity and inclusion unpatriotic, propaganda and unamerican.
• Why diversity, equity, inclusion and conversations on race are more important now than ever in the current culture of the US and across the globe.
• How Black people and others protesting in the name of social justice are being shot, threatened and attacked.
• Overcoming resistance and fear of diversity, conversations on race and social justice.
• Whose lives matter? Do white lives matter more than Black lives? Do heterosexual lives matter more than LGBTQ lives
• The fact that the media doesn’t mention the large numbers of Native American women who have disappeared, the lack of funds to help Native American communities and the high Covid death rate in that community.
• How issues of racism against LatinX, Asian and other people of color are often neglected, trivialized and ignored.
• Intercultural
• Health care disparities that result in higher death rates for Black women during childbirth than white women.
• Howard and Mun Wah share experiences engaging in dialogues with white supremacists.

Guests Bio:

Lee Mun Wah, M.A. Special Education, M.S. Counseling
Executive Director of StirFry Seminars & Consulting

Lee Mun Wah is an internationally renowned Chinese American documentary filmmaker, author, poet, Asian folk teller, educator, community therapist, and master diversity trainer. He is the Executive Director of StirFry Seminars & Consulting, a diversity training company that provides educational tools and workshops on cross-cultural communication and awareness, mindful facilitation, and conflict mediation techniques. His first documentary film, Stolen Ground, about the experience of Asian Americans, won honorable mention at the San Francisco International Film Festival. His most famous film about racism, The Color of Fear, won the Gold Medal for Best Social Studies Documentary and in 1995, Oprah Winfrey did a one-hour special on Lee Mun Wah’s life and work that was seen by many.  His latest film, If These Halls Could Talk, was just released.  The film’s focus is on college students and their experience with racism and other diversity issues in higher education.  Thousands of people from government and social service agencies, corporations and educational institutions have taken Lee Mun Wah’s workshops and partnered with Stirfry Seminars & Consulting on their diversity initiatives.

Howard Ross is a lifelong social justice advocate and is considered one of the world’s seminal thought leaders on identifying and addressing unconscious bias.  He is the author of ReInventing Diversity: Transforming Organizational Community to Strengthen People, Purpose and Performance, (published by Rowman and Littlefield in conjunction with SHRM in 2011), and the Washington Post best seller, Everyday Bias:  Identifying and Navigating Unconscious Judgments in Our Daily Lives, (published by Rowman and Littlefield in 2014, Second Edition released in 2020).  His latest book, Our Search for Belonging:  How Our Need to Connect is Tearing Us Apart, released by Berrett-Koehler in May of 2018, won the 2019 Nautilus Book Award Gold Medal for Social Change and Social Justice.

Howard has specialized in the synthesis of neuro-cognitive and social science research and direct application re: Diversity, Inclusion, Equity and Accessibility work.  His client work has focused on the areas of corporate culture change, leadership development, and managing diversity, inclusion and belonging.  Ross has successfully implemented large-scale organizational culture change efforts in the area of managing diversity and cultural integration in academic institutions, professional services corporations, Fortune 500 companies, and retail, health care, media, and governmental institutions in 47 of the United States and over 40 countries worldwide.  In addition, Howard has delivered programs at Harvard University Medical School, Stanford University Medical School, Johns Hopkins University, the Wharton School of Business, Duke University and Washington University Medical School and over 20 other colleges and Universities, as well as for the Association of American Medical Colleges (AAMC).  Howard served as the 2007-2008 Johnnetta B. Cole Professor of Diversity Professor of Diversity at Bennett College for Women, the first time a white man had ever served in such a position at an HBCU.  

Howard’s writings have been published by the Harvard Business Review, the Washington Post, the New York Times, Fast Company Magazine, Diversity Women Magazine, Forbes Magazine, Fortune Magazine and dozens of other publications.  He appears regularly on National Public Radio. Howard has served on numerous not-for-profits boards, including the Diversity Advisory Board of the Human Rights Campaign, the board of directors of the Dignity and Respect Campaign, the board of the directors for the National Women’s Mentoring Network, and the Board of Directors of the National Center on Race Amity.  Howard has been the recipient of many awards, including the 2009 Operation Understanding Award for Community Service; the 2012 Winds of Change Award from the Forum on Workplace Diversity and Inclusion; the 2013 Diversity Peer Award from Diversity Women Magazine; the 2014 Catalyst Award from Uptown Professional Magazine; the 2014 Catalyst for Change Award from Wake Forest University; the 2015 Medal of Honor by the National Center for Race Amity; the 2015 Trendsetter in HR by SHRM Magazine; and the 2016 Leadership in Diversity Award by the World Human Resources Development Conference in Mumbai, India.  He was also named an Honorary Medicine Man by the Eastern Cherokee Reservation in N.C. and given Medicine Holder designation by the Pawnee Nation.  Howard has also been honored to serve as a “Contributing Expert” in both 2015 and 2020 to the Global Diversity and Inclusion Benchmarks by the Centre for Global Inclusion.

Howard is also a former Rock ‘n Roll Musician and has taught meditation and mindfulness for more than 20 years, including his role as co-founder and Lead Facilitator for the Inner Journey Seminars.

In 1989, Howard founded Cook Ross Inc., one of the nation’s leading Diversity and Inclusion consultancies.  He sold the company in July 2018 and founded Udarta Consulting, LLC.

Howard keynotes and speaks regularly at Conferences for SHRM, SHRM Diversity, the Forum for Workplace Inclusion, National Association of Corporate Directors , ATD, the World Diversity Forum, and dozens of others.  

He can be reached at howard@udarta.com.

Amy Nickerson joins me for this Conversation on Race to talk about how racism traumatizes Black families.

Amy is an educational consultant who focuses on race and race relations. She is the author of the book, “HOW DO YOU SEE US?: Our Lived Realities of Being Viewed As a Threat.

This book details and analyzes what she and her family have seen and experienced as it relates to issues of law enforcement. This is not Black vs. Blue. This isn’t about sides – the black side or the blue side. This is not an attack on the overall institution of law enforcement. Nor is this a scathing rebuke of every white law enforcement officer. As Amy states in her book, "This is about my perspective, my innermost feelings about how I am viewed as a Black person in America, why I feel vulnerable around police officers, and how it got this way." Amy Nickerson recounts numerous encounters with police officers as well as ordinary white citizens insistent on policing black people.

Amy shares her experience with race and racism as a Black woman, mother of three children including Hardy Nickerson Jr. a linebacker in the NFL and as the wife of former NFL player and now a coach, Hardy Nickerson.

Key topics:

• No matter who you are, or how much money you have, if you are Black in the US your position and money will not protect you from racism, discrimination and being targeted by law enforcement and white racists.
• Her first experience with racism in elementary school.
• White policing of Black people by white people.
• All too frequent experiences of the Nickerson family being accused of stealing the cars they drive, or not belonging in their own neighborhood.
• Why white people often resent Black people being successful, or living their own lives, and how they try to sabotage Black success.
• Justified fear that Black women have every time their children leave the house.
• Challenges of being Black on vacation, having to tell her son, he couldn’t wear the clothes he liked because it could be dangerous.
• How many white people view Black skin as a threat and justify racist actions.
• Solutions to white policing of Black people everyday.

In this conversation on race, I’m joined by Dr. Elwood Watson, a Professor of History and African American Studies at East Tennessee State University. His areas of specialty are in 20th Century Post World War II U.S. History, African American History, African American Studies, Gender Studies, Popular Culture, and ethnographic studies.

Elwood is an author. His most recent book is “Keeping it Real,” essays on race and racism, white supremacy, and contemporary issue in the Black community.

Dr. Eddie Moore and Dr. Joe-Joe McManus join me on "Everyday Conversations on Race" to talk about white privilege, Black and other people of color working with white people, and racial justice.

Dr. Moore founded the White Privilege Conference in 1999. Dr. McManus is a well-known award-winning educator and leader in the anti-racist, social justice movement in higher education for over twenty years.

In this conversation on race, I’m joined by Kathleen Saadat veteran civil rights activist in Portland, Oregon. 

Kathleen shares her observations on the demonstrations in Portland, the federal troop presence, tear gassing of demonstrators and controversies surrounding the Moms and the Dad with Leaf blowers.

Key Topics:

• The fact that there have been large numbers of Black people in Portland, Black clubs, and soul food restaurants in North and Northeast neighborhoods

• Sundown laws in Oregon but there were still Black people living there

• Protests in Portland, tear gas and attacks against protests

• Moms marching and dads coming with leaf blowers to stop the tear gas

• People who were committing violence were in the minority and mainly provocateurs

• Most protestors were peaceful

• The violence against Black people and minimization of the value of Black values

• The problem that agent provocateurs are seen as representing protestors

• How young people have been great at bringing people together for Black Lives Matter and social justice from different backgrounds and world views

• Importance of having a vision

• Why she hates cancel culture because people have been raised a certain way and we need to educate them

• Black people are a small number of people in the US and need to build coalitions • Kathleen Saadat’s vision for long-term change

• How to address the need for people to understand history and how government is supposed to work

• The need for a truth and reconciliation program in every state

• How we can bring people into the equality community

• Why self-righteousness is another form of violence

• Why we need conversations instead of just canceling people

• The danger of cancel culture

• Why we have to allow people to change

• Why the Ten Point Program of the Black Panther Party is still relevant

Bio for Kathleen Saadat

Kathleen Saadat has served Oregon’s LGBTQ community as a mentor and confidant for nearly 40 years. In 1976, she and six others organized Portland’s first gay rights march. Later, she worked with a team of city employees to craft the Portland’s civil rights ordinance, which prohibited discrimination against gay and lesbian people and discrimination based on legal source of income. In 1992, she served on the steering committee for the campaign against Ballot Measure 9, which, had it passed, would have rendered GLBTQ people second class citizens.

An activist and advocate for African American rights and the rights of other people of color, for women’s rights, and for economic justice for all, Kathleen was a planner and participant in Portland’s International Women’s Day Celebration..

Kathleen Saadat  has received lifetime achievement awards from in recognition of her contributions to the efforts to "Keep Living the Dream" of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. She has been listed as one of “100 Who Lead in Oregon” by Oregon Business magazine.

She is a former member of the Oregon State University's board of visitors for minority affairs.

Contact info for Kathleen Saadat

BanLon@msn.com

In this episode I’m joined by AJ Cartas, a social influencer and founder of “Our Damn Time.”

Our Damn Time is a political organization whose mission is to promote the well-being of people of color, women, and members of the LGBTQ+ community by providing resources to empower, educate, and mobilize to enact deep, structural change.

Janet Hamada

Japanese and Jewish

Executive Director- The Next Door Inc.

Mid-Columbia Region     

Father and family in internment camp although 4th generation Japanese-American

Mother’s family is Jewish

Didn’t realize about issues of being bi-racial

When she went to UK- everyone stared at her

People would assume it was safe to say anti-semitic things because they didn’t realize she was also Jewish

Being from internment and hearing stories

Also husband lost family in the holocaust

Part of her identity- afraid that we are going in direction of Nazi Germany

The Next Door- to help families of color and low income

Saw family separation and doesn’t want that to happen

How has being Jewish impacted her

Instilled with jewish identity

Centuries of being persecuted

Jewish people who are Trump supporters

Anthony Sturkey, a Black ex-officer from the Long Beach Police Department joins me on this Conversation on race to offer a realistic perspective on what’s happening today in the US regarding race, racism and law enforcement.

Black Floyd is the new album with Lorelei
Social commentary, different influences, and the whole music evolution of Pink Floyd!

In this episode, LeRon shares his experience and talks about reasons why white folks want to come out and about their activism.

My guests on RaceConvo are Wanda Whitaker, Peter Rubin and Gaylon Logan from Village Connect. In episode called Race, Reconciliation and Transformation.

Kairo Jamal Evans joins me for Conversation on Race to talk about his experience as a 25-year-old Black Trans Man. Listen in to hear about his transition.

On this Episode of Everyday Conversations on Race, I’m joined by my very close friend and colleague, Dr. Joel Brown. Joel is an international known organizational and leadership development consultant. He is a spoken word poet, and a thought leader in Diversity, Equity, Inclusion and Belonging. The president and founder of Pneumos, Joel is known as the cultivator.

Key Topics:

• Messages he received as a young Black man growing up in Milwaukee
• Avoid the police who would shoot first and ask questions later
• How to talk to the police if he ever go stopped so he wouldn’t be shot or put in jail
• Be grateful that to go to a school with white kids
• Because of racism, he would have to work twice as hard as white people
• These warnings and lessons have stayed with him all of these years
• What it was like to have to have relatives in law enforcement and the difficulties they had to endure
• How Joel learned about the racism and toxic masculinity of “blue culture” from his relatives in law enforcement
• The many times and different cities he has been stopped by police just living or driving while black
• The real problem with the phrase “all lives matter”
• The fact that Black people are traumatized, hurting and exhausted but he is encouraged by the fact that so many white and other non-Black people of color are outraged, marching and speaking out
• Why he thinks that the phrase “Defund the Police” should be changed to “Reallocate funds” and that it would be more effective in getting the same results
• And what's up with Antifa

Contact info for Joel Brown:

Joel@Pneumos.com

www.souletry.com

www.Pneumos.com

Twitter: JoelBrown7

IG: JoelABrown

In this Everyday Conversation on Race, I'm joined by white ex-police officer Charles Hayes, author of the book "Blue Bias," and Elmer Dixon founder and former leader of the Seattle Black Panthers.  They share their personal histories, their work around race and their perspectives on fighting against racism in the wake of the murder of George Floyd and ensuing world-wide protests.

In 1968, Elmer Dixon and his brother Aaron came to Oakland to hear Bobby Seale the chairman of the Black Panther Party speak. Right after, they decided to form a chapter of the Black Panther Party in Seattle. It was the first chapter outside of California, and lasted until 1982, making it the longest running Black Panther chapter. The medical clinic they started is still operating.

Today, Elmer still works to eliminate racism, injustice and inequities in the US, as president of the Executive Diversity Services an organizational development consulting firm.

Charles Hayes grew up in Oklahoma and Texas in the 1940s and 1950s. He  joined the Marines at 17,  and four years later became a police officer in Dallas. He says that that the area and the department were racist to the core.

Charles burnt out after several years due to constant calls to break up situations of domestic violence. He didn't  have the maturity to understand the deeper issues affecting people in these situations.

After leaving the police department he began learning about life and reading in order to educate himself. His life changed when he read a  "Letter from a Birmingham Jail," by Martin Luther King. That's when he decided to work on unraveling the racist education he got.

As a consultant, Elmer had the opportunity to work with police. After leading successful programs for police in Chicago, he went on work with police in Washington,  Ireland and other cities. As a member of the Black Panther Party, which was named the Number One threat to US Security by the FBI, working with the police was a major shift in perspective for him.

Key topics in this episode:

• The origin, and manifestations of  police bias

• The role of neuroscience, external stimuli and stressors in the development of unconscious bias amongst cops

• How the police department attracts people with authoritarian personality

• Deaths of unarmed Black and Brown people at the hands of police

• The murders of George Floyd. Tamir Rice, Breonna Taylor, Ahmaud Arbery, along with the confluence of people sheltering in place, not working, struggling financially has put us at a tipping point in this country and the world

• How some Black police officers internalize bias and brutalize people in the Black community

• Solutions to end racist police practices

• Lessons learned from the Black Panther Party for today's fight against racism, police brutality and injustice

• Why a coherent vision and plan is necessary to sustain momentum and create systemic change, and what that might look like.

Contact info for guests

Email Charles Hayes    Autpress@Alaska.net   

Email Elmer Dixon EDixon@ExecutiveDiversity.com

The term "Karen" to describe certain white women who exhibit extreme privileged entitled behavior  began on social media and is quickly becoming part of today's lexicon. As my guests in this episode of "Everyday Conversations on Race" explain, the archetype of a "Karen" would be a  white woman who goes to Starbucks, usually dressed a certain way and expects to be treated like the only customer. When the barista spells her name wrong, she demands to see the manager and must have a new cup.

However, a group of white women complain that the term is "racist towards white women, ageist and classist. They are demanding the end of this term.

In this Conversation on Race, I’m joined by two women named Karen, who share their perspective on calling certain white women “Karens” for their white privilege behavior.

Karen Fleshman is a white woman, who  founded the organization “Racy Conversations,” an anti-racist group. She has written about the term and why she agrees with it. In this conversation on race, this Karen shares her background and how she came to be an active, outspoken anti-racist.

Commissioner Karen Clopton is an African-American woman who grew up in South Central Los Angeles. It was segregated by race but had a mix of professionals and working-class people. She is a member of the SF Civil Rights Commission. She shares her experience as a young Black  woman in a family that taught her early on about what it meant to be Black growing up in the USA.

Key Topics:

• Is it racist against white people, sexist against white women or ageist against white women to use the descriptor “Karen” to describe entitled behavior by certain white women.
• How to talk about racism to white people
• Why not talking about race and racism to children is racist
• The way racism has been institutionalized since the founding of the US
• How white people by default are beneficiaries of racism and have privilege as a result
• Why white supremacists think they are shielded from COVID
• Bringing the controversy to light of the “Karen” phenomena
• What the term “Karen” means when it refers to actions of some white women
• Why the two Karens don’t take offense at the term and why they think it’s justified
• What “peak Karen” looks like
• If you would like to see a "Karen" in action, look for the video of Amy Cooper, a white woman walking her unleashed dog in Central Park in an area that clearly stated dogs must be leashed because it was a habitat for birds. When an African-American man who was there to study birds asked her to leash her dog, she threatened him and called the police saying she was afraid for her life of an African-American man harassing  her.

Guest Bios:

An award-winning trailblazer, Karen Valentia Clopton brings deep knowledge, demonstrated operational expertise, and non-partisan insight into the political and regulatory arenas. She has served in top leadership, board, and executive roles in both governmental and non-governmental organizations across many regulated industries. General Counsel and Vice President of Access and Inclusion for Incendio International, Inc. and a nationally recognized civil rights advocate, she also serves as a San Francisco Human Rights Commissioner.

Karen Fleshman is the founder of Racy Conversations and is a racial equity trainer and government accountability activist striving to build and support a community of people committed to love, learning, accountability, and action on race in America. She is the author of the book  White Women, We Need to Talk: Doing Our Part to End Racism