Everyday Conversations on Race for Everyday People

Dorien Nuñez is a New York City native, amateur astronomer, and former professional Sax player. He has celebrated 50 years on Wall Street, is a first generation college grad from Harvard, and is a proud alum of the New York City public school system. He is a co-founder of a group of Harvard Black and Latinx alumni serving on corporate boards, and is a Senior Fellow at Intentional Endowments Network.

Dorien Nuñez’s journey to understanding the racial wealth disparity began in his childhood, growing up in Brooklyn but attending an elite mostly White high school in the suburbs. He was inspired by the achievements of people like Benjamin Banneker, and had mentors like his schoolteachers, who helped him develop his talents. At a young age, he began to understand the importance of money and developed entrepreneurial skills. With the help of his mentors, he was accepted to prestigious boarding schools and eventually Harvard Business School. His experiences gave him the insight to understand the systemic issues in capitalism and banking, leading him to dedicate his career to helping others to invest and create wealth. With his commitment to mentorship, Dorien Nuñez is helping to close the racial wealth gap and empower people to create and achieve unlimited success.

1. Exploring the economic disparities between white and black people in the US.

2. Investigating the role of mentors and how they help individuals succeed.

3. Decoding the secrets to becoming a millionaire by investing wisely.

Chapter Summaries:

[00:03:21]

The wealth disparity between black and white people. What does it mean when we talk about generational wealth?

[00:08:47]

Dorien was born in Harlem and then moved to Brooklyn. Got a scholarship to go to an elite white boarding school, St. Paul's School in Concord, New Hampshire. His first mentors were his school teachers. Ended up going to Harvard Business School.

[00:14:55]

When he was nine years old, he saw an article about the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. His mentors saw something in him and nurtured it. This leads him to try to find and mentor high school students and college students.

[00:17:32]

As a child, he was entrepreneurial. "The hardest job to get on Wall Street is your first job." His advice to anybody out there is to learn about money. You can't get rich if you don't know about money.

[00:23:53]

Credit scores are important and people can raise their credit scores. All kinds of free services will help you repair your credit. More and more entities are providing capital to people with lower credit scores. Things are getting easier and better, but you still have to take responsibility and get your budget in order.

[00:31:10]

"Well, when I went away to boarding school, it was practically all mostly white boarding school. I was there to get a good education, to learn what I could, and to take it back home. That was my mission. At age 14, I knew what I was going to do."

[00:31:40]

"The House of Representatives kept Adam Clayton Powell from taking his seat. So if they wanted to, they could keep George Santos in his seat. And in California, they recalled Governor Davis." "We'll send any listeners to this show, who calls in or sends Simma an email a free report on "Ten Things You Could Do To Save Money and Invest and Three Things You Can Teach Your Children."

[00:34:11]

The term Redlining comes from when the banks or insurance company would draw a red line around the neighborhood. They would not loan money to people in Black neighborhoods or sell houses to Black people to move into white neighborhoods. Redlining is not as obvious as it has been in the past, but it still exists and it's an impediment. The only solution is to sue them when this happens. You got to make them pay economically.

[00:36:40]

Dorien's experience with race and racism. How they were treated differently and that being black is not that easy.

[00:44:00]

There are a lot of Black networks that people need to know about and be part of. If you're not part of those natural networks, then you have to find your own and build your own. That's part of wealth building

[00:49:30]

What is in Dorien Nuñez's favorite playlist, films, movies, shows, and books?

Guest Bio

Dorien Nuñez, Co-Founder and Director of Research, OMNIResearch Group. He is also the Co-founder of OMNI Wall St Advantage. Created the OMNI "WOKE" Investment Research based on his decades of expertise in ESG issues and emerging manager/minority business development programs. Has helped launch venture capital funds and loan programs for woman-owned and minority-owned businesses, raised funds for the Emerging Manager Trust which became FIS (now EXPONA), and continues to consult for new and emerging funds.

Host Bio

Simma Lieberman, The Inclusionist helps leaders create inclusive cultures. She is a consultant, speaker and facilitator and the host of the podcast, “Everyday Conversations on Race for Everyday People.”

Contact Simma@SimmaLieberman.com

Go to www.simmalieberman.com and www.raceconvo.com for more information

Simma is a member of and inspired by the global organization IAC (Inclusion Allies Coalition)

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After a DNA test reveals he is a descendant of both Robert E. Lee and a former slave, Benjamin Jealous embarks on a Wild Ride to uncover the truth about the oldest open wound in America and the possibility of bridging the divide between black and white

Benjamin Jealous is ouir guest on this episode of Everyday Conversations on Race for Everyday People. He is a former president of the NAACP, a civil rights activist, and an author. He is the author of the book, "Never Forget: Our People Were Always Free," which explores racism, the history of the United States, and the power of storytelling.

In this episode, you will learn the following:

1. How is racism still affecting our country today?

2. What can we do to bridge the divide between different groups of people?

3. How did the concept of race originate and how has it been used to divide us?

Chapter Summaries:

[00:25]

 The book is about the oldest open wound in this country, the wound of racism. Author wrote it as a series of speeches, or monologues to his computer. The book is a very conversational book, a book a lot of people find surprisingly funny.

[09:38]

 Richard Yates Bland was the last white Bland to own my family. Robert Lee was the leader of the black Republicans in Virginia. What gives a slave man hubris to lead entire political parties?

[18:23]

 The title comes from something that we believe was first said by our female Kunta Kente of our family if you will. Never forget, our people were always free. That's what all the women in Atlanta I've ever known of were rebellious. And that's what put the steel in their spine.

[28:17]

 Dr. King was trying to bring poor white folks and poor black folks together to build a better America. The ultimate purpose of racism is to divide these two groups so they can't assert their right to get out of poverty. The media should show the real face of poverty, which is black and white and brown and Asian.

Guest Bio

Ben Jealous, is the youngest-ever person to have been elected as the national NAACP President; was just named the Sierra Club's Executive Director (the first person of color selected for the post), and is also a University of Pennsylvania, Professor of Practice. Timed for Black History Month, his new book just hit #1 in the African-American biographies category on Amazon. While researching the book, Jealous learned he is a cousin to slave owner Thomas Jefferson, confederate Robert E. Lee; AND a distant cousin of Dick Cheney! The book is dedicated to his grandmother who taught him to ’never forget our people were always free,’ which he considers his personal mantra of inspiration—hoping that we all: White/Black, Democrat/Republican—can finally join together to snuff out race; which Jealous says was not what our country was built on in the first place.

Host Bio

Simma Lieberman, The Inclusionist helps leaders create inclusive cultures. She is a consultant, speaker and facilitator and the host of the podcast, “Everyday Conversations on Race for Everyday People.”

Contact Simma@SimmaLieberman.com

Go to www.simmalieberman.com and www.raceconvo.com for more information

Simma is a member of and inspired by the global organization IAC (Inclusion Allies Coalition)

When Greg Jenkins, Nirupa Netram, and Elinor Stutz, three colleagues and members of the Inclusion Allies Coalition, come together to discuss the importance of talking about race, they are confronted with their own diverse backgrounds, a goal to support those impacted by racism, and a central conflict between silence and open dialogue.

"It is important for us to understand that race is a very Western idea, but in the context of those parts of the world where race is an understood terminology to understand the effects of race and racism is important for us to, in the case of the IAC, help us understand people that are suffering because of the negative impacts of racism." - Greg Jenkins

Greg Jenkins is an older, white, straight male of Catholic upbringing who spent 28 years in the US Army and has been a diversity, equity, and inclusion consultant for the last 17 years. Nirupa Netram is an attorney and consultant of Indian descent and Hindu faith. Elinor Stutz is a Jewish woman, a best selling author, and the founder of Smooth Sale,

Greg, Nirupa, and Elinor, along with Simma, are colleagues and members of the Inclusion Allies Coalition. Each of them has a different cultural background and provides their own perspective on the importance of talking about race and the value of the Inclusion Allies Coalition. Elinor shares the story of her family's experience and her own experience in corporate. They explain why it is important to have conversations about race, speak out against racism and stand together with people who are different. The Inclusion Allies Coalition provides a safe space for entry into conversations about diversity, equity, and inclusion, and a way to connect with people from all around the world.

The Inclusion Allies Coalition brought together three colleagues and friends with a variety of cultural backgrounds. They discussed the importance of having conversations about race and the value of those conversations.

In this episode, you will learn the answers to the following:

1. How does being a member of the Inclusion Allies Coalition promote diversity, equity, and inclusion?
2. What challenges have been experienced by those who have been negatively impacted by racism?
3. How can people become more open to learning from those who are different?

Key Topics:

[00:45]

Three members of the Inclusion Allies Coalition appear on this week's podcast. Each person will give you two minutes, two sentences about themselves. They will give their name, their cultural background.

[03:09]

“Why do you think it's important to talk about race today?”

 We can't have silence now because you're going to call on us. Why is it an important conversation? Well, these are discussions that are happening globally in response to so many issues.

[04:48]

Elinor Stutz was raised not to talk about being Jewish because her family were holocaust surivors. She says antisemitism is on the rise and so is racism. It's important for groups to stand together and to really speak out together.

[09:02]

The Inclusion Allies Coalition brings together people from all over the world. They are  advocates for people that may be suffering, or negatively impacted by the topics that we're referring to here.

Greg finds value in networking with other colleagues that are trying to do good things in their world.

[11:09]

Being an IAC member allows you to gain access to global practitioners who support and take action to build inclusion.

Elinor shares what it means to her to meet so many people who diverse in so many ways.

[19:24]

When Elinor was growing up, her grammar was half English and half Yiddish. She felt weird all the time. People always told her she was weird.

[22:23]

Nirupa: “I was very lucky growing up. It wasn't until I moved to the US that I began to experience the negative aspects of race and racism.” She says she would walk into stores and be ignored or looked at a certain way. Nirupa believes people are fundamentally good and capable of change.

[27:07]

Simma ask Nirupa, “Do you think younger generations are more accepting of Diversity, Equity and Inclusion, or it's still the same?”

Nirupa “I would like to see the future in upcoming generations, that they are more inclusive. I again believe people are well intended and capable of change.”

[31:13]

Nirupa: “Inclusion Allies Coalition is an important place in that we can have conversations that we don't have normally. For some folks, like maybe the ones that you're referring to in Charlottesville, that frightens them. We have to create spaces to have the conversations.”

[33:35]

Simma: What would you like your friends to do to show support for you?

Nirupa: I think just maybe us openly talking about it, and sharing ways that they can be an ally to me. I find talking through scenarios that negatively impact us really help.

[36:41]

Gregory: “We need to acknowledge what has happened so that it's not glossed over".

Elinor: I hope that we will become more united and this crime wave based on race and antisemitism as well as toward other groups will end.

[42:17]

Greg: “For your listeners there's the 4D Tool. The four DS are delay, distract, delegate and direct. Research showed that oftentimes when people see something happening, they don't know what to do. We do have to stand up, which is why we have inclusion allies.”

[45:39]

Simma: “Share either a movie. film or TV show, or a song that reflects what's going on today around race and differences or allyship. For each of you, I want to know, do you have any?

Guests Bio

Greg Jenkins is a dedicated and passionate leader, facilitator, coach, and mentor dedicated to helping people and teams achieve higher levels of performance.  Greg completed a successful 28+ year US Army career that ranged from overseas duties in Germany, South Korea, and combat duty in Iraq to include several stateside assignments culminating in Washington D.C.  While serving at the Pentagon, Greg teamed up with the Army’s Diversity Task Force, and worked directly with the Secretary of the Army and Army Chief of Staff to help establish the Army’s Diversity program, policies, and marketing. 

Now spanning over three decades from military service to professional corporate consulting, Greg has trained, facilitated, mentored, and coached countless military service members, corporate employees and executive leaders of various industries including the Federal Government, US military, finance, insurance, communications, logistics and retail services.  Greg is a passionate veteran volunteer who enjoys actively mentoring and coaching business professionals, US military service members, veterans.

Social Media Links

LinkedIn

Twitter

Nirupa Netram is an Indian female immigrant attorney and certified diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI) in the workplace professional with more than two decades of experience in multiple sectors, including the corporate, nonprofit, government, and legal sectors, in the areas of DEI, human resources, program management, strategic planning, operations, compliance, and more. Nirupa earned her bachelor’s degree in business administration from Stetson University and her juris doctorate from Stetson University College of Law. She is the founder of Lotus Solutions LLC, a Florida-certified woman and minority-owned enterprise that helps local, national, and international organizations build and sustain DEI to ensure a fair and just workplace.

Elinor Stutz, CEO of Smooth Sale, delivers inspirational keynotes at conferences and authored three books: The International Best-Selling book, “Nice Girls DO Get the Sale: Relationship Building That Gets Results”, and her second best-selling book is “HIRED!” The third book, The Wish: A 360 Business Development Process to Fuel Sales provides a comprehensive plan for building a global audience.

Kred ranks Stutz as a Top 1% influencer; CEO World Magazine named Stutz as one of “The brightest sales minds to follow on Twitter” and she was featured on the cover of the March 2015 Sales and Service Excellence e-Magazine. Stutz’ blog is distributed among corporations and entrepreneurs alike. Both Bizhumm and NowISeeIt named the Smooth Sale Blog as one of the “Top 100 Most Innovative Sales Bloggers.” Her sales seminar was filmed for Eduson.TV. Stutz consults and speaks worldwide.

Host Bio

Simma Lieberman, The Inclusionist helps leaders create inclusive cultures. She is a consultant, speaker and facilitator and the host of the podcast, “Everyday Conversations on Race for Everyday People.”

Contact Simma@SimmaLieberman.com

Go to www.simmalieberman.com and www.raceconvo.com for more information

Simma is a member of and inspired by the global organization IAC (Inclusion Allies Coalition)

Resources:

IAC (Inclusion Allies Coalition)

Other episodes you'll enjoy:

Black Fatigue with Mary Frances Winters

Kamau Bell and Kate Schatz; Do the Anti-Racist Work

How to End Racial Bias in Media with Karen Hunter and Daniel Stedman

Connect with SIMMA:

Instagram

Facebook

YouTube

Twitter

LinkedIn

Website

Loved this episode? Leave us a review and rating 

Mary Frances Winters, one of the original thought leaders in the diversity field and cross-race conversations, joins me in this conversation on race.

We talk about:

• How the histories of Black and other people of color are being replaced in the USA
• How we need to look at race and racism from a systemic point of view and not just look at individual actions
• The state of the diversity conversation at work

Key topics:

[2:06] Why it’s important to talk about race, and why people are reluctant to talk about it

[4:54] Her new book, “Racial Justice at Work”

[8:25] How we all swim in the water of white supremacy

[10:25] The way history of people from non-dominant groups is being wiped out

Example: Florida banning diversity training, and Don’t say gay bills

[14:53] When will teaching history of slavery be forbidden in public schools

[16:51] The fear that this country is becoming too Black or Brown and will have too much political clout that drives white supremacy

[21:15] The difficulty of discussing the topic of race at work

[23:47] Self-loathing and internalized oppression

[25:16] When Mary Frances was called the N-word at the age of five and the reaction from her parents

[29:02] The real history and current state of diversity, (equity and inclusion) today

[32:02] Why Mary Frances is not a fan of adding more letters to Diversity, Equity and Inclusion

[34:17] How some people who are not qualified are being asked to be diversity leaders just because they belong to a dimension of diversity

Why do some people take on the role without the requisite expertise?

[40:35] What is generational wealth? What is informational wealth?

[46:42] The biggest challenge Mary Frances has seen from white women

Guest Bio

Mary Frances Winters is President and CEO of The Winters Group, Inc., a 38-year-old diversity and inclusion consulting firm, and the author of six books, including her best seller, We Can't Talk about That at Work!: How to Talk about Race, Religion, Politics, and Other Polarizing Topics; and her two latest books, Inclusive Conversations: Fostering Equity, Empathy, and Belonging Across Differences and Black Fatigue: How Racism Erodes the Mind, Body, and Spirit.

Learn More About The Winters Group on their website, here.

Follow Mary-Frances on LinkedIn.

Follow The Winters Group on Instagram, LinkedIn, Twitter, and Facebook.

Host Bio

Simma Lieberman, The Inclusionist helps leaders create inclusive cultures. She is a consultant, speaker and facilitator and the host of the podcast, “Everyday Conversations on Race for Everyday People.”

Contact Simma@SimmaLieberman.com

Go to www.simmalieberman.com and www.raceconvo.com for more information

Simma is a member of and inspired by the global organization IAC (Inclusion Allies Coalition)

In this Conversation on Race, Kamau Bell and Kate Schatz join me to talk about race, racism, and their new book they co-authored, “Do The Work, An Anti-Racist Workbook. Kate Schatz, author, activist, and public speaker. 

Kamau Bell is a well-known author, comedian, and political commentator on CNN.

Kate Schatz, is a feminist author, activist, and public speaker. 

(Because of their schedules, I had to interview each one separately)

Key topics with Kamau Bell

What made Kamau Bell and Kate Schatz write “Do The Work, An Anti-Racist Workbook,” together.

What happens after people buy anti-racism books, they often do nothing.

How white racists went after the success of Black people after slavery and tried to destroy them.

Why Black people are justified in being afraid of being stopped by police at a traffic stop.

Why when people say they don’t have a racist bone, it means they are racist.

A big list of small actions you can take. 

How you can help create a non-racist society.

Educate kids to prepare for the world.

Why you should buy “Do The Work, An Anti-Racist workbook.

Key topics with Kate Schatz 

Her first experience with race, and speaking up against racism to a group of white parents at a high school meeting. 

How her friends supported her anti-racism. 

how she keeps talking about white supremacy when she is told to stop.

Explaining white supremacy so other white people can understand it.

Ways in which the USA was founded on white supremacist beliefs.

What people can do to eliminate white supremacist beliefs?

Anti-racist actions everyone can take.

Guests Bio

W. Kamau Bell is a stand-up comedian and the director and executive producer of the four-part Showtime documentary, We Need To Talk About Cosby, which premiered at Sundance. He also hosts and executive-produces the Emmy Award winning CNN docu-series United Shades of America with W. Kamau Bell. His new book, Do The Work: An Antiracist Activity Book, co-written with Kate Schatz, is forthcoming from Workman in July. 

http://www.wkamaubell.com/about

Link to book

https://www.workman.com/products/do-the-work/paperback

https://www.amazon.com/Do-Work-Antiracist-Activity-Book/dp/1523514280

KATE SCHATZ is an author, activist, public speaker, educator, consultant, and queer feminist mama who's been talking, writing, and teaching about race, gender, social justice, and equity for many years. She's the New York Times bestselling author of the "Rad Women" book series (including Rad American Women A-Z, Rad Women Worldwide, and Rad American History A-Z), which have sold over 300,000 copies and been translated into four languages. Her book of fiction, Rid of Me: A Story, was published in 2007 as part of the cult-favorite 33 ⅓ series. She is the co-author of Do the Work: An Anti-Racist Activity Book, with W. Kamau Bell, the comedian and Emmy-winning host of CNN’s United Shades of America.

www.KateSchatz.com

Host Bio

Simma Lieberman, The Inclusionist helps leaders create inclusive cultures. She is a consultant, speaker and facilitator and the host of the podcast, “Everyday Conversations on Race for Everyday People.”

Contact Simma@SimmaLieberman.com

Go to www.simmalieberman.com and www.raceconvo.com for more information

Simma is a member of and inspired by the global organization IAC (Inclusion Allies Coalition)

Marcus Sawyerr, CEO of EQ Community joins me in this conversation on race. We talk about how he and EQ Community help Black and other People of Color who have been historically excluded from professional opportunities.

He shares his experience as a Black man in the UK, and  how he came to the US and founded EQ Community.

Key Topics include:

[4:16] Why it’s important for Black people to have access to business opportunities, and ways to get those opportunities.

[5:14] Why access to information is crucial, and how lack of access has resulted in exclusion for Black and other people of color.

[12:07]- Why and how he founded EQ Community.

How Marcus Sawyerr and EQ Community help People of Color get access to top jobs and opportunities instead of languishing in search firms

[14:00] How people in EQ Community get and give support to each other to excel

[15:39] Why and how Black and Brown people are underutilized even after they get hired

[16:38] Is exclusion a Black and White thing, is it an organizational DNA thing? A race thing?

[23:10] How Diversity and Inclusion is a superpower

[27:01] The difference between being a black man in the UK vs being a Black man in the US.

[30:22] How the system in the US is set up for People of Color not to win and how to change that.

Guest Bio

British-born CEO Marcus Sawyerr is founder of EQ Community, was an executive board member to Microsoft, former Head of Global Partnerships at The Adecco Group in Switzerland, and Senior Director at CareerBuilder. 

His latest tech platform is a unique online community that’s cultivating and connecting multicultural professionals interested in tech— accelerating diverse and inclusive executive recruitment, globally.

He can speak to timely topics, as:

-Hiring Trends across Tech in DE&I Metaverse 

-How Web3 and decentralization will impact future of work

-DEI program best practices for a winning team

- Myth-busting the big lie about “lowering the bar“ to attain inclusive hiring and diverse workforce

- The power and impact of inclusion and equitable recruiting

- The importance of developing nuanced and strategic approach to implementing diverse hiring panels

- And how to structure, implement, measure, and sustain equitable and inclusive attraction and selection practices

Lastly, Marcus is featured in publications: Insight, The EQ Report, American Express, Recruiter.com, LinkedIn, and Inside Big Data.

Host Bio:

Simma Lieberman, The Inclusionist helps leaders create inclusive cultures. She is a consultant, speaker and facilitator and the host of the podcast, “Everyday Conversations on Race for Everyday People.”
Contact Simma@SimmaLieberman.com
Go to www.simmalieberman.com and www.raceconvo.com for more information
Simma is a member of and inspired by the global organization IAC (Inclusion Allies Coalition) 

Suhag Shukla joins me in this conversation on race to answer the question, “Is it racist to talk about race?” Suhag is the executive director of the Hindu American Foundation. She's also on the Homeland Security, faith-based security and communications Foundation. And she's a leading voice for civil and human rights and religious freedom.

Key topics:

[1.45] How she grew up straddling both a Hindu identity and an American identity and realizing that the core teachings of Hinduism and being an American fit together.

[5:11] The so-called “founding fathers” who didn’t consider Black and Native American people full human beings.

[5:46] First experience with racism during the oil crisis in the 1970s and being "othered."

[7:51] Is caste and/or asking about caste racist? The history of caste and Indian society as well as the British and Portuguese in India.

[10:51] Social Identities, castes, and religious traditions

[12:11] Commonalities in communities and castes in India

How people in India identify today beyond caste, who has social capital based on class

[15:11] Myths of caste and the fluidity of castes and engagement across different group

The complexity of Indian society, and the assumptions that people outside of India make about people in India

American society tries to simplify economic and social societies in India without any real understanding

[25.48]  US school textbooks teach about other cultures and countries like they are stuck in time, and not what’s happening now

People in the US don’t understand Indian culture today and even asked Suhag if she has electricity in India if her parents arranged her marriage while she was in elementary school

Being assigned a caste by a reporter in a recent interview based on her last name and how she confronted the reporter

Preconceived notions about her. because of her Indian heritage and culture and asking racist questions

[33:13]  The recent survey by the Carnegie Endowment for peace, conducted one of the first-ever comprehensive surveys done of Indian Americans and Indian American attitudes

shows that with each subsequent generation, there's less and less affinity towards identifying by caste. And  when it comes to discrimination, close to 50% of the people responding out of 1000 people in the survey reported having faced discrimination in the year previously

[39:55] Institutionalizing of caste at Brandeis, Harvard, CSU and other universities. Suhag’s view of why it is racist to ask about caste and include it in a protected category- that it has never been an issue in education

Guest Bio

Suhag Shukla, Esq., Executive Director, is a co-founder of HAF. She holds a BA in Religion and JD from the University of Florida. Ms. Shukla has helped steer the Foundation to being recognized as a leading voice for civil rights, human rights, and religious freedom. She’s been instrumental in the development of a broad range of educational materials and position papers and blogs for a variety of platforms. Ms. Shukla has served on the Boards of the Nirvana Center, Main Line Indian Association, and YWCA of Minneapolis. She was also a member of the Department of Homeland Security Faith-Based Security and Communications Subcommittee. Ms. Shukla is actively involved with Chinmaya Mission, serves on the board of the Bhutanese American Organization of Philadelphia, and is a thought partner for the Interfaith Center of Greater Philadelphia’s Paths to Understanding Public Art Initiative. Shukla is a member of the board for the National Museum of American Religion and serves on religious advisory committees for the Council on Foreign Relations, the Humane Society of the United States, and the Department of Homeland Security’s Subcommittee for the Prevention of Targeted Violence Against Faith-Based Communities and is a member of the First Amendment Center’s Committee on Religious Liberty and the United Nations Women’s Gender Equality and Religion platform. Shukla was named one of twelve “faith leaders to watch in 2017” by the Center for American Progress.

Email: Info@HinduAmerican.org

Host Bio

Simma Lieberman, The Inclusionist helps leaders create inclusive cultures. She is a consultant, speaker and facilitator and the host of the podcast, “Everyday Conversations on Race for Everyday People.”
Contact Simma@SimmaLieberman.com
Go to www.simmalieberman.com and www.raceconvo.com for more information
Simma is a member of and inspired by the global organization IAC (Inclusion Allies Coalition) 

Michael Motta, is a former executive in the record business. He was instrumental in breaking open the careers of musicians like Snoop Dogg, Beastie Boys, Megadeath and Bonnie Raitt.

After years in the business, he realized it was treacherous to his health and left after achieving major success. He also saw the systemic racism and inequality of music airtime, radio station resources. Listen to his story in this conversation on race.

Today he is the regional manager of Mayweather Boxing and Fitness in Los Angeles, CA, USA.

Michael considers himself a “a man for all nations.” He is African, Sicilian, Cuban, and Jewish. Raised in the Bronx by four strong Black women, he  learned to be a strong Black man.

Key topics:

[5:00] How he was bullied by different groups because of his skin color, not being white enough for the white kids and not dark enough for the Black kids.

[7:12] Incredibly, Michael just two years ago that he is fifty-one percent Jewish. Hear how he found his Jewish father and a sister he didn’t know he had. However before finding that out, he always had connections to Jewish people, and his son’s mother is Jewish.

[16:12] What made him finally decide to leave the music industry-
Motta breaks down the systemic racism of the music industry and the segregation of the radio stations.

[20:53] We talk some of our favorite genres of music along with artists we love

[29:06]

• White kids who listen to hip-hop but don’t care about the politics, and still act racist towards people of color.They spend money on the music but don’t understand history or the message.
• Where to find conscious rap and hip-hop since it’s not played on commercial radio or given airplay

[34:50] • His experience in college at a mostly Jewish school

[38:55] • What it’s like being Black with light skin. How he wasn’t accepted in different places and what he did to survive.

[40:44] Race and racism and how it’s about fear

[41:37] Why he’s bothered by gentrification and it’s impact on non-white communities.

[45:35] Solutions and suggestions to end racism and actions we can all take

Guest Bio
A 20-year industry veteran, Michael hails from the Bronx and is of Black, Hispanic and Caucasian heritage.  He earned a scholarship to Brandeis where he played varsity basketball and then went on to earn an MBA at Boston College.  Mike is an accomplished martial artist, boxer and strength and conditioning coach – as well as an expert on nutrition counseling and healthy living -- all skills he attributes to his ability to combat stage four prostate cancer.  Prior to his fitness career Mike was an accomplished record industry executive and was head of promotion and marketing for four record labels, executive vice president for several film companies and is an accomplished screen writer.  He’s the proud father of one son, Nick.

Host Bio

Simma Lieberman, The Inclusionist helps leaders create inclusive cultures. She is a consultant, speaker and facilitator and the host of the podcast, “Everyday Conversations on Race for Everyday People.”
Contact Simma@SimmaLieberman.com
Go to www.simmalieberman.com and www.raceconvo.com for more information
Simma is a member of and inspired by the global organization IAC (Inclusion Allies Coalition) 

Michael Dismuke and Lorenzo Jones from Eden Housing, join me in this conversation on race.

Listen in for practical advice, and best practices for engaging in successful cross-race conversations as they share their experiences. Eden Housing is an organization that develops, manages, and maintains affordable housing throughout California.

With a multi-racial and multi-cultural employee base, they have been able to ensure that their multi-racial, and multi-cultural residents feel included, respected and heard. When you have people living or working together from diverse backgrounds, unless people are able to interact with each other in meaningful ways, there can be tensions, bias and silos. Hear how Eden Housing is able to bring people together across race to thrive together.

Discover why meaningful interactions, and sharing personal stories can stop racial and other kinds of bias. Learn why leaders need to start with themselves in the conversation about race, by reflecting on their own experiences, their own bias, and why they think and act the way they do. They need to live their values if they say they value diversity and racial equity. Racial equity doesn’t happen by itself. It takes the whole organization to work together.  In this conversation on race, Michael Dismuke and Lorenzo Jones offer concrete suggestions and solutions to talk about race, and how to live diversity, equity and inclusion.

Key topics:

[2:53] How Michael Dismuke and Lorenzo Jones credit their own interracial, multicultural backgrounds as contributors to their success as leaders at Eden Housing.

[4:52] Creating comfortable environments to talk about race and have “curious conversations”.

[9:29] Having conversations across race and finding connections.

[14:30] The importance of going beyond racial optics in organization. You have to live inclusion and diversity to be successful.

[16:00] Creating a diversity council that is diverse.

[20:33] Best practices for inclusion during holiday seasons.

[26:33] How to make people from diverse religious faiths and observances feel included, while not favoring any one group.

[31:49] Gamifying cross-race conversations, and sharing stories across race and culture.

[39.31] Recognition, and showing respect for indigenous people and their history on the land.

[45:28] The problem of mixing religion, politics and organizational policies.

Guests Bio:

LORENZO JONES

SENIOR DIRECTOR OF DIVERSITY, EQUITY AND INCLUSION

As Senior Director of Diversity, Equity and Inclusion, Lorenzo is responsible for crafting a comprehensive DEI strategy for the organization, defining goals, and providing a roadmap to ensure that Eden Housing embeds a commitment to racial, social, and economic justice in all its work. He facilitates and creates linkages among Eden’s DEI Council, working groups and committees, and evaluates Eden’s internal processes and practices with an equity lens.

MICHAEL DISMUKE

VICE PRESIDENT OF ORGANIZATIONAL DEVELOPMENT AND INTERNAL COMMUNICATIONS

As Vice President of Organizational Development and Internal Communications, Michael is a key member of the Human Resources and Extended Leadership Teams (ELT) at Eden Housing. He is the communications advisor to the company’s executive team and senior leaders across the company. He creates and executes strategies to ensure the company’s human capital has the training and resources they need to support the growth of the organization.

Host Bio

Simma Lieberman, The Inclusionist helps leaders create inclusive cultures. She is a consultant, speaker and facilitator and the host of the podcast, “Everyday Conversations on Race for Everyday People.”
Contact Simma@SimmaLieberman.com
Go to www.simmalieberman.com and www.raceconvo.com for more information
Simma is a member of and inspired by the global organization IAC (Inclusion Allies Coalition) 

In this conversation on race, I’m joined by Michael Fosberg. Michael is a writer, actor and activist on issues of race. He is also a Black man who didn’t know he was Black until he was in his mid-thirties when his Armenian mother and white Swedish step-father got divorced. That’s when he went on his journey to find his biological father. Until then, Michael thought he was white.

Listen to this fascinating conversation and hear the story of Michael Fosberg.

Key topics:

[6:27] How he found his father and then found out his biological father was Black.

[15:31] Growing up in a diverse area and thinking he was one of two white people on the basketball team.

[17:13] Why Michael’s mother didn’t tell him he was Black.

[20:27] His lifelong connection to Black people and African-American culture and sudden understanding of why he had that connection.

[31:21] What it’s like for him, knowing he is Black but growing up with white privilege and how his skin color still gives him that privilege.

[41:35] Responding to people who say they are colorblind.

[46:28] Michael Fosberg answers the question of what to do about racism.

Guest Bio

Chicago native Michael Fosberg has been working to create a national dialogue on race and identity since 2001 when he launched his one-man autobiographical play Incognito. The author-activist has used the unique presentation, along with engaging interactive training sessions and speeches, to embrace diversity in an effort to change corporate and organization cultures.

He has been a frequent guest in the national media speaking as an expert on race and identity issues. His travels have taken him across the country facilitating meaningful conversations at educational institutions, corporations, government agencies and military bases. His highly praised memoir; Incognito: An American Odyssey of Race and Self Discovery was published in 2011 and his newest book, Nobody Wants to Talk About It: Race, Identity, and the Difficulty in Forging Meaningful Conversations addresses his efforts to provoke conversations about race over the past fifteen years.

Contact info: info@incognitotheplay.com

Host Bio

Simma Lieberman, The Inclusionist helps leaders create inclusive cultures. She is a consultant, speaker and facilitator and the host of the podcast, “Everyday Conversations on Race for Everyday People.”
Contact Simma@SimmaLieberman.com
Go to www.simmalieberman.com and www.raceconvo.com for more information
Simma is a member of and inspired by the global organization IAC (Inclusion Allies Coalition) 

Deepa Purushothaman joins me in this conversation on race to talk about the racism, isolation, and trauma many women of color experience in corporate America.

What is it like for a woman of color to get promoted up to the executive suite and still have to deal with microaggressions, blatant racism, and trivialization? What is it like to be the only person of color in your school and to hear people say how much they hate you? What is it like as a woman of color to constantly have to prove your accomplishments while white people are never questioned?

Hear the answers to these questions in this episode with Deepa Purushotaman as she shares her experiences and those of other women of color in the workforce.

Key Topics:

[2:30] Growing up as the only Indian-American in her school in an almost all-white town.

[4:35] First experience with racism and speaking out at the age of eight

[7:30] The trauma of racism and its effect on physical and mental health.

[10:29] The importance of women of color getting together, sharing their experiences, and helping to heal each other.

[13:14] Letting go of feeling responsible for your “whole group” or race.

[16:22] Coming to terms with burnout from microaggressions, trying to fit in, and feeling alone. How Deepa began organizing dinners with other senior women of color across the country to heal together.

[31:00] How to practice scenarios as an ally, and speak up as a woman of color. Know what to say and take care of yourself and be able to express pain. How not to feel responsible for other people’s reactions.

[41:27] Address systems and structures that have never included women of color.

[44:51] How losing everything and having to go on public assistance was a turning point for Deepa Purushothaman and intensified her consciousness and empathy.

[48:08] Issues of colorism and why some Asian women are uncomfortable talking to Black women about race.

[51:52] While there are differences amongst women of color, there are also similarities that need to be addressed together. 

Deepa Purushothaman Bio

Many women of color have scars from climbing the corporate ladder. Sixty percent of WOC feel their companies are not properly prepared to handle racist incidents in the workplace – it’s time to eliminate those incidents by creating unbiased and accountable corporate cultures.

As the first Indian woman to become a partner at Deloitte, Deepa Purushothaman experienced isolation and burnout firsthand. And then came the overt workplace harassment. Her new book, THE FIRST, THE FEW, THE ONLY: How Women of Color Can Redefine Power in Corporate America (March 1, 2022, Harper Business), lays the groundwork for how other women of color can redefine success on their own terms. It's the book she says she needed when launching her own career.

Contact Info:
https://www.deepapuru.com
https://www.linkedin.com/in/deepapuru

Simma Lieberman, The Inclusionist helps leaders create inclusive cultures. She is a consultant, speaker and facilitator and the host of the podcast, “Everyday Conversations on Race for Everyday People.”
Contact Simma@SimmaLieberman.com
Go to www.simmalieberman.com and www.raceconvo.com for more information
Simma is a member of and inspired by the global organization IAC (Inclusion Allies Coalition) https://inclusioncoalition.info

Karen Hunter, journalist and host of the Karen Hunter Show on Sirius XM and Daniel Stedman, founder of the New Ed-Tech platform Pressto, join me in this conversation on race. They share how Black students in the US and the African diaspora, and other low income and young people of color are using Pressto to create their own newspapers and zines. This is one solution for young people to express their views and share real experiences with race, culture and diversity instead of consuming false information from biased media.

You’ll hear how Karen had to confront her white editor at the Daily News about racial bias in their coverage of police shootings and how she convinced him to change his perspective.

Key topics: 

• Real news gathering has been replaced by algorithms and public opinion presented as fake facts. That includes how gaslighting, misinformation, and disinformation take the place of actual fact gathering, particularly in issues around race and racism.

• How Pressto gives young people hope and inspiration to be seen and heard, like how Daniela Fraser took out her phone and documented the murder of George Floyd.

• What does it mean to be white? Karen Hunter asks why people identify as white and foster the system of white supremacy. She talks about race as a social construct, and why she wants to dismantle the construct of race.

• Hunter’s experience as a Black journalist with the Daily News when Amadou Diallo was murdered by police in his vestibule and how her editor wanted to glorify the police without knowing what happened. After she  asked her editor if that could happen in a rich white neighborhood, he allowed her to address the issues of racism. She talks about the murder of Eleanor Bumpurs, Sean Bell and others who were killed by police because they were Black

• Why Pressto can help young people of color and other kids be future journalists who get the truth out and share their stories.

• How Daniel Stedman created the EdTech software Pressto, because he was inspired to make learning fun for kids and spark them to be journalists of the future.

• The importance of diversity of ideas and bringing Pressto to the African Diaspora including Jamaica and Canada.

• Karen asks Daniel Stedman about what it means to be white, if he sees himself as white. Daniel talks about his strong identification about his Jewish culture and what it means to be white.

• The fact that the Nazi Nuremberg laws crafted their strategy from the Jim Crow laws in the US.

Listen to the episode with Karen Hunter and Daniel Stedman to hear about the future of journalism, dismantling systemic racism and other bias in the media and how white people can use and share the privilege they have to take actions against racism. 

Guest Bios

Daniel Stedman is the CEO & Founder of Pressto, a tool that makes learning to write fun for kids and easy for teachers. Previously, Daniel was the Founder of Northside Media (acquired), the parent company to Northside Festival, Taste Talks, SummerScreen and Brooklyn Magazine. He has spoken at CES, Orange Institute and SXSW and has been featured in the NY Times, New York Magazine, New York Observer, Huffington Post, and more. Daniel is a published children's book author and award-winning film director.

Karen Hunter is a Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist, professor, publisher and “change agent,” according to Essence magazine, which named her one of the “Woke100” of 2018. She was also selected to the 2020 Ebony magazine’s Power 100 List. As a writer, Karen has coauthored eight New York Times bestsellers. As CEO of Karen Hunter Publishing, an imprint of Simon & Schuster, she published more than 35 books, including No. 1 NYT bestseller True You by pop icon Janet Jackson, as well as bestsellers with Kris Jenner and E. Lynn Harris. Karen has been named one of the 100 Most Important Radio Talk Show Hosts in America by industry bible Talkers Magazine every year since 2015. A New Jersey native, a Drew University graduate, Karen has been a full-time professor and Distinguished Lecturer in the Film & Media Department at Hunter College in New York City since 2004. In 2020, during the pandemic, Karen launched Knarrative, which is home to the largest Africana Studies classroom in the world.

Simma Lieberman, The Inclusionist helps leaders create inclusive cultures. She is a consultant, speaker and facilitator and the host of the podcast, “Everyday Conversations on Race for Everyday People.”
Contact Simma@SimmaLieberman.com
Go to www.simmalieberman.com and www.raceconvo.com for more information
Simma is a member of and inspired by the global organization IAC (Inclusion Allies Coalition) 

In this Conversation on Race, John Blake, senior writer, and producer at CNN talks about anti-racist white men who grew up in racist families. They were surrounded by racism in their environment and grew up in red states, yet they chose a different path. Listen in to hear some of the stories and find out the factors that influenced their thinking and actions.

We also talk about the epidemic and potential cures for the fear that many white people have about Black men in public spaces.

Key topics:

[5:11] How Matt Hawn, a white teacher in Tennessee became an anti-racist and then was fired for talking about racism to his students. Why white Pastor Gibson “Nibs” Stroupe from Arkansas founded a multi-cultural church in Decatur, Georgia, where he was an outspoken anti-racist.

[9:54] The gradual change from racist beliefs to anti-racism. How do some people get trapped by their own identity?

[11:21] White people need other white people who are anti-racist and have made a difference

[13:07] The transformational power of meeting people from a different race and building relationships

[16:35] The power of ordinary people to create change

[17:26] Why change often comes from pressure at the bottom

[18:33] The Epidemic of white fear of Black people in public spaces

[39:33] Internalizing stereotypes and internalized racism

[40:58] How John Blake let go of hostility towards white people after meeting his white mother.

[45:15] Creating spaces for people of different races and cultures to interact and change.

Guest Bio
John Blake is an award-winning journalist at CNN.com, the online site for CNN and an author. He has been honored by the Associated Press, the Society of Professional Journalists, the American Academy of Religion, the National Association of Black Journalists, the Religion Communicators Council and with the GLAAD Media Award. He was most recently the winner of the 2019 Sigma Delta Chi awards for Excellence in Journalism for his online columns on race and politics. His 2020 essay, “There’s One Epidemic We May Never Find a Cure For: Fear of Black Men in Public Spaces,” was recently selected by Bustle Digital Group as one of the 11 best essays on racism and police violence. The other authors on that list included Ta-Nehisi Coates, Ibram X. Kendi, and Roxane Gay. Blake’s book, “Children of the Movement,” was a finalist for the 2005 NAACP Image Awards in the Outstanding Literary Work Non-Fiction category and a finalist for the Gustavus Myers Outstanding Book Awards. He has spoken at high schools, colleges, symposiums and in documentaries about topics such as race, religion and politics. Blake is a native of Baltimore, Maryland, and a graduate of Howard University.

Simma Lieberman, The Inclusionist helps leaders create inclusive cultures. She is a consultant, speaker and facilitator and the host of the podcast, “Everyday Conversations on Race for Everyday People.”

Contact Simma@SimmaLieberman.com

Go to www.simmalieberman.com and www.raceconvo.com for more information

Simma is a member of and inspired by the global organization IAC (Inclusion Allies Coalition) https://inclusioncoalition.info

In this conversation on race, I’m joined by my colleagues from the Brain Trust of the Shift Network R.A.C.E Project.

Rev. Doctor Aliah Majon, the Chief Inclusion Officer of the Shift Network enlisted Mike Alexander and me to join her in the R.A.C.E Project.

Aliah shares her experience as a Black woman who grew up in Detroit, how race and racism impacted her growing up, how she dropped out of high school, and then how she went on to get a double Ph.D.

Mike Alexander talks about his experience as a Black police officer who went on to become a police chief and shares stories of how he dealt with the racism he encountered.

Kapiolani Laronal shares her experience as an indigenous woman from Hawaii and the racism she has encountered in predominantly white schools.

Key topics:

[7:12] The R.A.C.E project and our role in making the world a better place. Our focus is on what we can do to dismantle racism, and the role that mind, body, spirit plays in individual change.

[11:08] Mike Alexander, former Police Chief and now acting Police Chief in Texas talks about the importance of creating psychological safety when talking about race and racism with people.

[23:23] How Mike has learned to self-regulate when he is confronted by racism and specific issues in the police department.

Racism on the part of police officers, and the impact it had on him.

[38:07] The importance of working with young people to dismantle the systemic racism embedded in the US throughout history 

[48:31] The work that Aliah has done with police departments around diversity, inclusion, equity, and race.

The importance of being curious and willing to learn and change.

Guests Bio

Rev. Dr. Aliah (she/her) is an evolutionary and racial healing champion who believes that we are meant to be engines of evolution. Her methodologies are informed by firsthand experience growing up in the inner city of Detroit and losing her only child to suicide, as well as three decades serving as a corporate trainer, facilitator, and educational consultant.

Mike Alexander earned a Bachelor of Arts degree in Criminal Justice from St. Edwards University in Austin, Texas. He earned a master's degree in Organizational Leadership from Southwestern Assemblies of God University in Waxahachie, Texas. Mike has over 40 years in law enforcement which began as a Correctional Officer and Deputy Sheriff at the Travis County Sheriff's Office.

Simma Lieberman, The Inclusionist help leaders create inclusive cultures. She is a consultant, speaker and facilitator and the host of the podcast, "Everyday Conversations on Race for Everyday People." 

Contact Simma@SimmaLieberman.com 

Go to www.simmalieberman.com and www.raceconvo.com for more information

Simma is a member of and inspired by the global organization IAC (Inclusion Allies Coalition) https://inclusioncoalition.info 

In this conversation on race, I’m joined by Jerry Fu. Jerry is a conflict resolution coach who helps Asian American leaders advance in their career and life journey. He's also a pharmacist. Jerry started coaching in 2017 to help other Asian American professionals deal with the conflicts they encounter at work with their culture and within themselves.

Key topics:

[1:33] Jerry Fu’s journey from being a pharmacist to becoming a coach for Asian-American leaders in  conflict resolution.

[8:35] How early in his career and life, Jerry was conflict-averse and had to become more assertive in every aspect of his life.

[10:53] Why he thinks it’s important to talk about race.

[12:00] Jerry’s comments and thoughts about the increase in attacks against Asian-Americans. He shares several times in his life when he was targeted for being Asian-American.

[22:23] Anti-Chinese sentiment and the fact that Asians are being attacked in different ways and blamed for Covid in the US.

[28:13] How he helps Asian-American leaders deal with conflict and his thoughts on the source of conflict aversion

[31:08] Fighting the stereotype of Asians as the “model minority.”

[33:00] What non-Asians need to know about Asian people

[34:03] The importance of recognizing that there is not just one Asian culture but there are different countries and cultures in Asia

[35:56] Stereotypes amongst Asian people towards other Asian cultures

Guest Bio

Jerry is a conflict resolution coach who helps Asian-American leaders advance in their career and life journeys. Having taken on several pharmacy leadership roles, Jerry started coaching in 2017 to help other Asian-American professionals deal with the conflict they encounter at work, with their culture, and within themselves.  

Prior to starting his coaching business, Jerry served as a pharmacist and began facilitating leadership workshops in 2012. Today, Jerry offers a range of coaching services, which includes individual coaching, group workshops, and keynote presentations. He has appeared on over seventy podcasts and plans to appear in plenty more. To learn more, you can visit https://www.adaptingleaders.com.

In this exciting and dramatic conversation on race, I’m joined by Amr Awadallah former VP of developer relations for Google Cloud, and Sara Speer Selber, CEO of Quest Essential. Amr, a Muslim who was born in Egypt, and Sara, a Jewish woman born in the US. We talk about the ability to change and the need to allow people to change instead of canceling them for what they thought or did in the past.

Amr was fired from Google after he wrote a paper called “We Are One,” about how he used to not like Jewish people because of what he had heard about Jewish people as he grew up. But after meeting and getting to know Jewish people and even finding out he had Jewish DNA he changed his thinking.  Some other employees at Google accused him of antisemitism. We talk about social justice, the need for education, and the importance of eradicating racism, antisemitism, homophobia, Islamophobia, and other hate, it’s hypocritical and dangerous to “cancel,” fire, or ban people who have changed. If we can’t admit to past mistakes without fear, it will be almost impossible to get other people to let go of racism, etc.

Sara Speer Selber shares how she was raised to agree with everything Israel did and not like Muslims. After getting to know Muslim women and hearing about a group called Salaam Shalom which brought Muslim and Jewish women together, she began to change her thinking. She went on to help start a chapter of Salaam Shalom in Texas where she lives.

Key topics:

[4:42] Amr tells his story of what he used to think about Jewish people and what happened to make him change and get to know Jewish people.

[9:07] What happened when Simma was part of a Jewish-Palestinian dialogue group and the support she got from Palestinians when her partner died. The Palestinians in the group attended the Jewish services.

[10:39] The stories Amr heard about Jewish people that shaped his thinking growing up.

[12:10] How Sara met Amr when they were both on a Clubhouse for two weeks where Palestinians and Israelis shared their stories. Sara heard Amr talk about what happened to him at Google and she reached out to him.

[17:06] Amr was in a deep depression about being fired and when Sara reached out to him it lifted his spirits. He talks about how he was impacted by all the Jewish people who reached out to him.

[34.02] Why we all need to work together against climate change which can kill us all. When we hate and refuse to interact it stops us from moving forward and we can all be destroyed.

[37.27] How the Muslim community came together in Texas to support the Rabbi and worshippers in the synagogue when people were taken hostage.

Guests Bio

Sara Speer Selber, Founding Partner of QuestEssential, has more than 40 years of experience managing people and organizations for excellence and success. Her career with for profit and non-profit entities has been characterized by entrepreneurial innovation and has been recognized repeatedly by professional and community groups for her business achievements and many contributions to the welfare of others.

Dr. Amr Awadallah is the CEO and cofounder of ZIR AI, a company that is revolutionizing how we seek knowledge across all languages of the world. He previously served as VP of Developer Relations for Google Cloud until July 2021. Prior to joining Google in Nov 2019, Amr co-founded Cloudera in 2008 and as Global CTO, he spent 11 years working closely with enterprises around the world on how to ingest and extract value from big data (he famously coined the terms “schema-on-read vs schema-on-write”).

Sumi Mukherjee was bullied and tormented all his young life for his skin color, ethnicity, and Indian name. Let's hear how his experiences compelled him to write about his life to help other people of color.

Key Topics

[4:25] His first experience with race and racism was in elementary school. Being raised in an all-white city in Plymouth, Minnesota.

People knew about white and black people but nothing about people from India.

How his family tried everything to fit in as part of America by celebrating Christmas, putting up a tree, etc. but he was accepted.

His shock at not being treated as an equal but being bullied by racists in school.

The trauma of racist attacks by white kids at school

He says he was the diversity of the school.

[10:31] Although he had provisional economic privilege because of his family background, it did not negate the color of his skin, nor the outpour of hate against him and his parents.

[12:20] How he was bullied, made fun of, and attacked because of his name Sumi. They also made fun of his last name, Mukherjee.

Having to explain his background to people who had no understanding of who he was.

[16:50] The terror of being harassed at night by people constantly calling his house making fun of his name and being targeted by racists.

The trauma of living through racism for all people of color.

[20:14] The effect on his self-esteem and mental health.

How he was traumatized, the impact on his mental health, and developing OCD.

The trauma of racism impacts all people of color and is life-long. It needs to be recognized and discussed.

Sumi has had to deal with low self-esteem, feeling isolated and afraid. He has gotten help with mental health issues and fears. Today he writes and talks to people about racism, bullying, and getting through racial trauma.

[24:54] What parents need to know to help their kids who are being bullied due to race. The importance of taking it seriously and not telling kids to ignore it.

What white parents need to do to help their kids be allies and support their friends of color who are being bullied or attacked.

[39:02] Sumi shares his struggles with trying to win white people over to like him. It shouldn’t be the responsibility of people of color to win people over.

How do you motivate people to care?

Sumi Bio

Author and Speaker Sumi Mukherjee published his first book titled “A Life Interrupted – the story of my battle with bullying and obsessive compulsive disorder” in July 2011.  His second book published in July 2014, is titled “Father Figure – my mission to prevent child sexual abuse”. His third book titled “How to stand up to workplace bullying and take on an unjust employer” was published in Jan 2017. His fourth and the latest book titled “Minority Viewpoint – my experience, as a person of color, with the American Justice System” was published in Dec 2020.

In this conversation on race I’m joined by Steve Pemberton, Chief Human Resources Officer of Workhuman. Steve shares his story of growing up in foster homes with no idea of his background, his identity, or his birth family.  Although he was the biological son of a Black father and a white mother, he didn’t know if he was Black or white until he located his biological family.

He is the author of two books, “A Chance in the World,” that chronicles his life story and “The Lighthouse Effect, How Ordinary People Can Have an Extraordinary Impact on the World.”

Key topics in this episode of “Everyday Conversations on Race,” with Steve Pemberton

• How Steve Pemberton is mixed race, (Black and white) and but never knew who he was
• How his life experience has been the driving factor in his work in Diversity, Equity and Inclusion and social justice
• The reactions of some of Steve’s family members to him and his racial background
• How America has fallen short in terms of embracing all cultures, races and faith and not living up to its founding principles
• After the Civil Rights movement ended illegal segregation, we as a country chose legal segregation
• Misunderstanding of the definition of “Critical Race Theory,”
• Policies directed at people of color like voter suppression and redlining and how some white people get offended when racist policies are discussed
• Persecution of his West Indian ancestors and his Irish ancestors when they came to the US
• The importance of being aware of all our multiple identities and those of other people
• How those multiple identities can help people find commonality but too often people stay “above the waterline,” and treat people based on biases and wrong assumptions
• Understanding common humanity and our complexities can bring people together
• Why more people aren’t questioning polarization but insist on embracing it
• How Pemberton’s organization Workhuman helps people recognize each other and feel included
• Why we need a real framework for overcoming racism and creating a country and world where everyone can live, work, and build together
• The different forms of recognition that Workhuman promotes and how that recognition supports Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion
• How lack of inclusive and recognition holds people back from contributing and doing their best work
• How Workhuman’s work in ensuring employee recognition  makes a difference in levels of happiness for people of color, and other underrepresented people.
• The tendency of Millennials and Gen Z to care about social justice in organizations and how they will leave jobs where they don’t see any effort to support equity
• The role of organizations in social change, and how Steve Pemberton sees the key role they play
• When employees have to deal with issues like racism, attacks against Asians, lack of support for Black Lives Matter, etc. they can’t do their best work.
• People who consider themselves allies have to do more than say slogans but need to engage and show support
• What happens when people of color see their white friends stay silent when they see racism, and why we need people to do more than empathize
• Allies need to step up and stand next to people who are being targeted and speak out against offensive comments and actions
• Anyone and everyone can make a difference to support humanity, dignity, and fairness
• How diversity and inclusion are not the same, what organizations can do to ensure that they have both

Listen in to hear more of Steve Pemberton, find out what’s on his playlist, and the books and films he recommends.

Steve Pemberton Bio

Passionate about building human-centered workplaces that recognize the value and potential of each and every employee, Steve Pemberton has made embracing humanity in the workplace the core of his responsibility.

As the Chief Human Resources Officer of Workhuman, Steve is committed to working with HR leaders and senior management to transform and lead more connected, human-centered workplaces that accelerate learning, engagement and productivity. Steve aims to make the work more human in everything he does by fostering a sense of purpose in the workplace and ensuring equity for all.

Steve also champions human rights efforts to ensure equality and access for all, both at home and in the workplace. This passionate advocacy has earned him honorary doctorates as well as the U.S. Congress’ Horizon Award for his personal contributions and for setting a positive example for younger generations. He is the esteemed author of “The Lighthouse Effect: How Ordinary People Can Have an Extraordinary Impact in the World” and the USA Today best-selling memoir “A Chance in the World,” following him on his search for his family. Steve is a graduate of Boston College and is involved with UCAN Chicago, Boys Hope Girls Hope and The United States Business Leadership Network as a board member.

Omar L. Harris, former General Manager of GSK and Allergan, joins me in this conversation on race.  He has more than 20 years of experience as a global pharmaceutical executive. Omart is the founder and managing partner at Intent Consulting, a firm dedicated to improving employee experience and organizational performance. He is the author of "Leader Board: The DNA of High-Performance Teams", "The Servant Leader's Manifesto", and “Be a J.E.D.I. Leader, Not a Boss”. 

Omar shares his journey to the top, the cost to him as a Black man in America, and how he came to speak out and no longer compromise his identity and his beliefs.

Key topics:

• Omar’s first experience with racism was when he was voted Prom King of his high school in Louisiana. The principal told him that he was “allowed” to be the Prom King to “snitch” on the other Black students. Harris refused, stood up to the principal, and kept his title
• What happened when Omar L Harris met Ku Klux Klansman David Duke while in high school
• How he was the only Black product manager, the only Black Director of Marketing and the only Black General Manager outside of Africa, and the only Black General Manager of a global company in the world
• The psychic toll of assimilation and having to whitewash himself without even realizing it
• Why he now feels responsible for opening the doors for other Black people
• How he refuses to compromise his values and will always speak out against racism and discrimination of any kind
• Why people who are not Black don’t understand the full gravity of racism and the dangers of working while Black
• Why white people who call themselves allies must be willing to speak out and take a stand with friends, family, and colleagues even if parts of their lives unravel as a result
• How white allies can be more prepared to take action if they practice and prepare for different situations
• His books on leadership and how they are different than white leadership books. Why it’s essential that every CEO needs to take action against racism, or they are not real leaders
• Check out his playlist, the TV shows he recommends, and the books he reads

Bio

OMAR L HARRIS (Charlotte, NC, born in Pittsburgh, PA) is the founder of Intent Consulting and TYMPO.io (the world’s first and best SaaS application for employee inclusion), a Former GM (GSK and Allergan), Business and Servant Leadership Thought-Leader, Speaker, Award-Winning Bestselling Author of 5 books, including "Be a J.E.D.I. Leader, Not a Boss: Leadership in the Era of Corporate Social Justice, Equity, Diversity, and Inclusion", June 25 2021, “The Servant Leader’s Manifesto”, 2020, and “Leader Board: The DNA of High Performance Teams”, 2019). With 20+ years of global pharmaceutical executive experience building teams, Omar has worked on 4 continents (U.S., Middle East, Asia and Latin America) for Pfizer, Merck, Schering-Plough and more. As a Gallup Certified Strengths Coach, Motivational Speaker, Entrepreneur and Florida A&M University Alumni, Harris is passionate about leading teams, high-performance coaching, and inspiring the future leaders of today and tomorrow to adopt the servant leader mindset and stop toxic leadership behaviors. 

Omar is also the Co-Author of “From Authors to Entrepreneurs F.A.T.E.: The Personal Side of Indie Publishing” (2015) and Author of “One Blood” fiction book (2011, pen name, Qwantu Amaru – currently being developed into a television series). Harris was a featured speaker at the 2021 International Institute of Leadership Conference with his compelling topic: “The End of the Boss – 7 Rules for the Modern Leader”, a keynote speaker at the Leadership Harrisburg Area Graduation event, a featured speaker at the 2021 Rising Leaders Summit, a featured speaker at the BB21 Rise Conference, and a featured coach at the 11th annual WBECS Summit. His work has been featured by CNN HLN Weekend Express, WPXI-TV NBC Pittsburgh, Black News Channel, The Jewish Journal, The Beating Alpha Podcast, The Living Corporate Podcast, Real Leaders, SHRM Blog, Thrive Global, CEO World Magazine, Human Capital Innovations (HCI) Podcast, VoiceAmerica Business, Culture Stew and many more. As fun facts, Omar speaks 5 languages, plays 7 instruments, and started his first company at the age of 7.

https://www.omarlharris.com/

In this conversation on race, journalist Tony Chapelle joins me to talk about getting more women and people of color on corporate boards. Tony Chapelle, has recently retired after 36 years, as a business news reporter and producer.

In his career, he has interviewed CEOs and corporate executives, and  moderated panel discussions with corporate board directors of Fortune 1000 companies. Tony, has been interviewed more than 60 times for his insights on African Americans in business by the Wall Street Journal, The New York Times, CNN, CNBC, Fox Business channel.

As an African American and as a journalist, Tony has been involved with efforts to bring more people of color on corporate boards which have been overwhelmingly white.

“African Americans, other racial minorities, and white people of goodwill have tried almost every tactic known to man to effect racial justice in this country.

In the more than 100-year evolution of the fight for equal opportunity, one of the most intractable excuses that we hear in the workplace is that a particular corporation would love to hire more Black folks, “If only we could find those who are qualified.”

On its surface, this seems to be a plausible rationale for not having people of color in the corporate workforce.

But highly-qualified Blacks, Latinos, and Asians are out there in great numbers including those who could sit on the boards of directors at companies where they could make the great decisions and changes that would alter corporations from the top down. “

Key topics:
• How corporate boards run corporations, and influence decisions made by organizations and governments that impact our everyday lives
• How companies can decide whether they're going to be good citizens, whether they're going to be profiteers, or whether they're going to just do as little as possible to be viewed as doing the right thing
• The isolation of being the only Black person on national news networks and having to deal with constant racism
• Why Tony Chapelle founded a newsletter for Black people on wall street
• Why it’s critical to this country and the world to get more people of color, women, and LGBTQ people on corporate boards
• How climate change activists have gotten people on corporate boards
• How and why created a directory of people of color, women, and LGBTQ people who are highly qualified to sit on corporate boards
• Disproving the fallacy that there are not enough qualified POC, women, and LGBTQ to sit on boards
• Which corporate leaders are bringing people POC, women, and LGBTQ to their corporate boards

Bio

Tony Chapelle recently retired after 36 years as a business news reporter and producer. For the past 20 years, he has interviewed CEOs and corporate executives, and has moderated panel discussions with corporate board directors at Fortune 1,000 companies. Chapelle has been interviewed more than 60 times for his insights on African Americans in business by The Wall Street Journal, The New York Times, CNN, CNBC, Fox Business Channel, and a host of other news agencies. He worked his entire career in New York as a staffer at the Financial Times publication Agenda, CNN, Thomson Financial, and Johnson Publishing. In addition, he freelanced  and he and his wife published a newsletter called Securities Pro for blacks on Wall Street. He also was the national editor for Jesse Jackson’s newsletter for his Wall Street Project, which aimed to get corporate America to collaborate with Black companies. Chapelle graduated from the Columbia University School of Journalism in 1984.