Everyday Conversations on Race for Everyday People

If you were a Black man imprisoned and tortured for fighting against the brutality of apartheid in South Africa, could you forgive your oppressors? Siya Twani did just that. This is a don’t miss episode. We all need to hear his story. It is especially relevant today with the slaughter of over 1,000 Israelis and the continued bombing and killing of over 1,000 Palestinians in Gaza. 

In this episode, Simma, the Inclusionist, welcomes guest Siya Twani, who grew up under South African apartheid and became a freedom fighter with Nelson Mandela. Siya shares his experiences of imprisonment and torture, which ultimately led him to speak on reconciliation, forgiveness, and mental toughness. The conversation explores the importance of discussing race within the context of apartheid and the impact of racial trauma on Black children. Tune in to gain insights from Siya's powerful story and his perspective on race.

 Siya's story is a testament to the resilience of the human spirit and the power of forgiveness. He emphasizes the importance of addressing racial trauma and healing the wounds caused by racism. Siya challenges the notion that talking about race is unnecessary, reminding us that those who experience racism daily are tired of living with it.

The conversation delves into the history of apartheid in South Africa, shedding light on the extreme racial discrimination and inhumane treatment endured by black, Asian, and colored people. Siya highlights the stark contrast between the privileged lives of white South Africans and the poverty and oppression faced by the majority.

Siya's involvement in the liberation movement and his time in prison shaped his mission to promote reconciliation and empower others to move from victimhood to empowerment. He shares his personal process of forgiveness, acknowledging that it was not easy but necessary for his own healing and liberation. Siya believes that forgiveness is a powerful tool for personal growth and transformation.

The episode also explores the concept of reconciliation and the Truth and Reconciliation Commission in South Africa. Siya acknowledges that while it was a step towards healing, it did not fully address the systemic injustices and inequalities that persist in the country.

Siya's work as an international speaker focuses on promoting justice, equality, and difficult conversations. He encourages education, engagement, and building healthy human connections across racial and cultural lines. Siya's message is one of hope and the belief that change is possible when we confront our biases, challenge the status quo, and work towards a more inclusive and equitable world.

Don't miss this thought-provoking episode with Siya Twani, a true freedom fighter and advocate for reconciliation. His story will inspire and challenge you to examine your own beliefs and take action towards a more just and inclusive society.

This episode should make us stop and ask ourselves, “what kind of world do we want to live in?”  Are we willing to act from love, and kindness or do we want to live in hate, revenge, `and continuous death?

Visit www.siyatwani.com to learn more about Siya and his work.

Guest Bio

Siya Twani is a South African Global Citizen with a passion to add value to people. A Passionate Educator, Mr Motivator and Inspirational Speaker.

Siya Twani grew up in Cape Town in the 60s and 70s and experienced first-hand the pain of racism and discrimination. He was committed to the struggle and spent time in prison aged 17 for this commitment.

He now lives in England and visits schools/ colleges/Universities and companies as a Motivational and Inspirational speaker to talk about his own experiences and lead workshops on a variety of themes

“Siya, You are truly a wonderful person who inspired us all and brought us all closer to a better understanding of humanity. You have such a remarkable and powerful story to share with the world which is not one of anger nor bitterness but one of love and a desire to bring people together… you have touched all of our lives.” Teacher (Tendring Primary)

Host Bio

Simma Lieberman, The Inclusionist helps leaders create inclusive cultures. She is a consultant, speaker and facilitator and the host of the podcast, “Everyday Conversations on Race for Everyday People.”

Contact Simma@SimmaLieberman.com

Go to www.simmalieberman.com and www.raceconvo.com for more information

Simma is a member of and inspired by the global organization IAC (Inclusion Allies Coalition) 

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In this episode, Simma The Inclusionist, is joined by Sean Wilson, the organizing director of Dream.org's Justice Team. With 17 years of lived experience and direct involvement with the criminal legal system, Sean brings insight into a system that he believes is broken and in need of reform. They discuss the importance of talking about race, especially in a society where some are trying to criminalize almost everything. Tune in to gain a deeper understanding of the role of race in America's history.

Time Stamps

[00:02:13] Sweeping race conversations under the rug
[00:06:03] Internal transformation in prison
[00:09:22] Racial disparities in sentencing
[00:14:17] Disparities in drug sentencing
[00:19:22] Sentencing and racial identity
[00:27:35] Systemic racism and incarceration
[00:29:14] Challenging the criminal legal system
[00:35:27] Systemic racism in criminal justice
[00:43:12] Black codes in the criminal legal system
[00:45:10] Racism in the criminal justice system
[00:49:00] Country music and rap fusion
[00:53:42] Show notes available for download

Simma interviews Sean Wilson, the organizing director of Dream.org's Justice Team, who shares his deeply personal experience with the criminal justice system and the impact of systemic racism. Sean, who was born and raised in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, opens up about his troubled youth, including getting involved in criminal activities such as selling drugs and committing armed robbery.

At the age of 17, Sean was arrested and sentenced to 50 years in prison for his crimes. He reflects on the harshness of his sentence, questioning how a judge could sentence a young boy to the same amount of time he had lived on this earth. Sean highlights the racial disparities within the criminal justice system, emphasizing that Black and Brown individuals are often given much harsher sentences compared to their white counterparts for similar offenses.

He discusses the historical roots of systemic racism in the criminal justice system, tracing  back to the 13th Amendment and the implementation of Black codes, which restricted the freedom of African Americans and perpetuated a form of slavery through convict leasing. Sean emphasizes that these discriminatory practices continue to target Black and Brown people, leading to disproportionate rates of incarceration.

Sean also addresses the issue of racial bias in sentencing, where black individuals are more likely to receive longer sentences compared to white individuals for the same offenses. He highlights the need for judges and prosecutors to view individuals before them as human beings deserving of grace, understanding, and the opportunity for redemption.

As the organizing director of Dream.org's Justice Team, Sean is dedicated to closing prison doors and opening doors of opportunity. The organization works in three issue areas: climate justice, tech equity for Black and Brown people, and criminal justice reform. Sean's role involves training and building up leaders to advocate for transformational legislation that will reduce mass incarceration.

In terms of recommended resources, Sean suggests reading "The New Jim Crow" by Michelle Alexander, which provides a comprehensive analysis of the racial disparities within the criminal justice system. He also recommends "Better Not Bitter" by Yusuf Salaam, one of the Central Park Five, who shares his personal journey of transformation and resilience after being wrongfully convicted.

For those interested in gaining a deeper understanding of the criminal justice system, Sean suggests watching the HBO documentary "Growing Up Milwaukee," which follows the lives of young individuals assigned mentors, including Sean, who share their stories to deter them from a life of crime. He also recommends the documentary "13th," which explores the history and impact of mass incarceration in America.

To connect with Sean and learn more about Dream.org's work, you can reach out to him via email at seanwilson@dream.org or follow him on social media platforms such as LinkedIn (Sean Wilson) and Facebook. You can also visit the Dream.org website and follow the organization on Instagram and Facebook for updates and information on their initiatives.

This episode sheds light on Sean Wilson's personal experience with race and the criminal justice system and highlights the urgent need for systemic change to address racial disparities and promote justice and equality for all.

Key Takeaways:

1. Systemic racism is deeply rooted in the criminal justice system, leading to racial disparities in sentencing and treatment.

2. Black individuals are often subjected to harsher sentences and less leniency compared to their white counterparts for similar offenses.

3. The criminal justice system perpetuates harm and fails to provide opportunities for redemption and rehabilitation.

4. Advocacy and reform efforts are crucial to address the systemic racism within the criminal justice system.

5. Open and honest conversations about race are necessary to bring about meaningful change and find common ground for solutions.

To learn more about Sean Wilson and his work, visit the Dream.org website and follow him on social media platforms such as LinkedIn and Facebook. Additional resources mentioned include the book "The New Jim Crow" by Michelle Alexander and the documentaries "Growing Up Milwaukee" and "13th."

Guest Bio

Sean is the Organizing Director at Dream Corps. As someone with 17 years of lived experience and direct involvement with the criminal legal system, Sean brings an advantage and insight into a system he believes to be broken and in need of reform. Before joining the Dream Corps JUSTICE team, Sean was the ACLU of Wisconsin’s Smart Justice Campaign Manager, where he managed the campaign to reform probation and parole. In addition, he also serves as a commissioner on the Governor’s Juvenile Justice Commission (GJJC), a State Advisory Group (SAG) that advises the DOJ on its juvenile justice programs and funding decisions and serves as an independent forum to discuss juvenile justice policy issues.

Host Bio

Simma Lieberman, The Inclusionist helps leaders create inclusive cultures. She is a consultant, speaker and facilitator and the host of the podcast, “Everyday Conversations on Race for Everyday People.”

Contact Simma@SimmaLieberman.com

Go to www.simmalieberman.com and www.raceconvo.com for more information

Simma is a member of and inspired by the global organization IAC (Inclusion Allies Coalition) 

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In this episode of Everyday Conversations on Race, I interview Rosalyn Taylor O'Neill, a highly regarded diversity and inclusion thought leader. Rosalyn shares her experiences as the former Chief Diversity Officer at Campbell's Soup Company and Executive VP of Diversity Initiatives for MTV Network. She has received numerous accolades and awards for her work, including being named one of the top 100 most influential Blacks in corporate America and one of the top executives in diversity, and one of most influential LGBTQ people that year. With 47 years of experience, and never backing down, no matter who challenged her, Rosalyn has a lot to say and share. You want to hear this conversation on race.

In this episode of Everyday Conversations on Race, Diversity, Equity and Inclusion pioneer Rosalyn Taylor O'Neale emphasizes the importance of learning how to discuss race and navigate through discomfort in order to address racial disparities in every area.

Rosalyn acknowledges that talking about race can be uncomfortable and may cause anxiety, as people may fear making mistakes or offending others, but they are necessary in order to learn and grow.

One example is the significance of discussing race with healthcare professionals. Rosalyn explains that if a doctor is not comfortable talking about race, it can create issues for patients, particularly those from racial minority groups. She mentions that rashes may appear differently on the skin of different races. Therefore, it is crucial for doctors to be aware of these differences and for patients to be able to communicate their specific needs and concerns related to race.

Rosalyn highlights the importance of discussing race in society as a whole if we want to survive. She says that in her town, seeing a Black person is still a rarity, indicating the lack of racial diversity. This lack of exposure and understanding can perpetuate stereotypes and biases. By engaging in conversations about race, individuals can challenge these stereotypes and learn from one another's experiences.

She emphasizes that it is not enough to simply listen and sympathize with someone's experiences. You must take action and support them in practical ways if you are anti-racist. Merely expressing sympathy or feeling bad for someone does not bring about any real change or alleviate their situation.

Rosalyn shares personal examples. She often felt left out in her mostly all white school, and when she was having a hard time solving a problem, no one would offer to help. However, they always helped each other and acted like they didn’t see her.

If you want to be an ally in action and not just words, then ask someone  directly what they need and take steps to fulfill those needs.

Simma, mentioned a friend who noticed an older Asian woman in their building who rarely went out due to fear of attacks during the pandemic. Instead of just expressing concern, the friend offered to accompany her to the grocery store, providing practical support and reassurance.

There is power in collective action. Walking together with someone can make them feel safer and more empowered. By offering to accompany someone who feels unsafe, we can show solidarity and create a stronger sense of support. It is not enough to simply acknowledge someone's experiences; we must actively work to mitigate the situation and make them feel supported.

Time stamps:

[00:02:41] Fearlessness and Belonging.

[00:04:25] Diversity in organizations.

[00:10:52] Learning about different cultures.

[00:15:08] Learning through discomfort.

[00:16:31] Loudness and race awareness.

[00:22:18] Overcoming stereotypes and assumptions.

[00:25:06] Being black in America.

[00:29:58] Asian hate and race discussion.

[00:34:07] Blacks and Jews misunderstanding.

[00:37:32] Asking questions and seeking understanding.

[00:41:25] Slavery and acquired skills.

[00:46:23] Living in a diverse world.

[00:49:08] Empathy and creating understanding.

[00:54:46] Empathy and taking action.

[00:57:55] What are you listening to these days?

[01:02:22] TV shows and cultural diversity.

[01:04:36] Ways to relax and distress.

Guest Bio

Rosalyn Taylor O'Neale is a highly regarded diversity and inclusion thought leader, celebrated for her transformative impact on organizations worldwide. With extensive experience, including her roles as Vice President and Chief Diversity Officer at Campbell Soup Company, and Executive Vice President of Diversity Initiatives for MTV Network, Rosalyn has facilitated courageous conversations on biases, race, culture, gender, sexual orientation, privilege, and gender identity. Her work has earned her numerous accolades, such as being named one of the Top 100 Most Influential Blacks in Corporate America, Top Executives in Diversity, 100 Top Executives in America, and 100 Most Influential LGBT People of the Year.

Host Bio

Simma Lieberman, The Inclusionist helps leaders create inclusive cultures. She is a consultant, speaker and facilitator and the host of the podcast, “Everyday Conversations on Race for Everyday People.”

Contact Simma@SimmaLieberman.com

Go to www.simmalieberman.com and www.raceconvo.com for more information

Simma is a member of and inspired by the global organization IAC (Inclusion Allies Coalition) 

Connect with me:

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In this conversation on Race, Simma Lieberman, The Inclusionist, and Chad Lassiter, the executive director of the Pennsylvania Human Relations Council, engage in a deep personal conversation about self-reflection and awareness of privileges, stereotypes, and behaviors. Chad shares his own daily process to engage in self-reflection on race, and his role in bringing people to the common table to challenge stereotypes that perpetuate inequality and discrimination.

With school boards and politicians, not only eliminating African-American history and any discussion of racial discrimination under the guise of making white children feel uncomfortable, we need to find ways to flip the script and empower all children, including white children, to be agents of change. While acknowledging concerns about discomfort, Chad Lassiter says that we can help children see that they have the power to contribute to a more just and equal society. By engaging in these conversations, children can recognize each other's humanity and understand their role in promoting peace and justice. 

The key moments in this episode are:

[02:26] Conversations around racism and division.

[06:37] First experience with racism.

[09:12] Police brutality and activism.

[12:06] Generational trauma and racial identity.

[17:04] Dismantling systemic and structural racism.

[21:11] Building solidarity through activism.

[26:49] Wealth and taking care of the poor.

[28:00] Employment discrimination based on appearance.

[33:19] The importance of conversation.

[36:13] The trigger for white rage.

[40:03] Talking about race in schools.

[45:55] The Woman King and toxic masculinity.

[48:37] Social change agents and justice warriors.

Chad references the work of Paul Kivel, who emphasizes the necessity of difficult conversations about racism to uproot it. 

This episode of Everyday Conversations on Race for Everyday People needs to be heard by anyone who wants to empower people of all ages to eliminate racism and other forms of inequality.

With so much foolishness about not even mentioning cultural/racial differences and pretending everyone is the same while erasing non-white people, it’s essential that we share and talk about our identities, and culture. This is how we can find common ground and learn and grow together. Chad says these conversations will help us all find a balance between preserving individuality and being open to connecting with people from diverse backgrounds. No one is just one identity, and it would be very boring to pretend otherwise.

We talk about Chad’s experience of growing up in an all-black community and how his perspective initially remained narrow due to his limited exposure. However, from interacting with individuals from different cultures and backgrounds, his viewpoint expanded, and he discovered shared experiences. This highlights the idea that engaging with diverse perspectives broadens understanding and fosters connections.

Simma and Chad talk about the concept of cultural pride reinforcement, particularly within the context of the Black Lives Matter movement. Cultural pride does not entail valuing one culture over another but rather celebrating and affirming the importance of one's own culture while also respecting and acknowledging the significance of other cultures. This supports the notion that maintaining one's identity and culture does not necessitate rejecting or disregarding others.

Listen in as we touch on the significance of having conversations about race, racism, and other issues that some may see as divisive. 

While recognizing the importance of addressing these topics, we also need to incorporate discussions around peace, justice, truth, love, and kindness. That's how a more inclusive and compassionate society can be created. Without that, we'll be even more divided racially and in every other way

Overall, the episode underscores the importance of maintaining one's identity and culture while also seeking common ground with others. It highlights the value of expanding perspectives, celebrating cultural pride, and engaging in conversations that foster understanding, peace, and justice.

Guest Bio

Chad Dion Lassiter is a national expert in the field of American Race Relations. Mr. Lassiter has worked on race, peace, and poverty-related issues in the United States of America, Africa, Canada, Haiti, Israel, and Norway, and is called upon frequently by media outlets to provide commentary on race relations and potential solutions.

He is the current executive director of the Pennsylvania Human Relations Commission, where he has legislatively delegated authority to investigate complaints filed alleging unlawful discrimination in the areas of employment, housing and commercial property, education and/or  public accommodations. During his capacity in this position, he has developed and launched a ‘No Hate in Our State Townhall’ to address the surge of White nationalism in Pennsylvania, a ‘Social Justice Lecture Series’ providing an outlet for the communities in the state to discuss imperative issues and serves as a Racial Reduction Response team for those communities impacted by hatred. He oversees a staff of 84 with three regional offices that comprise the 67 counties in Pennsylvania and manages an annual budget of $12 million. He has also developed programs under his appointment, such as a ‘Global Social Justice Initiative’, ‘Black and Jewish Beloved Community Dialogue’, and the ‘College Race Dialogue Initiative.’

Host Bio

Simma Lieberman, The Inclusionist helps leaders create inclusive cultures. She is a consultant, speaker and facilitator and the host of the podcast, “Everyday Conversations on Race for Everyday People.”

Contact Simma@SimmaLieberman.com

Go to www.simmalieberman.com and www.raceconvo.com for more information

Simma is a member of and inspired by the global organization IAC (Inclusion Allies Coalition) 

Connect with me:

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In this episode of Everyday Conversations on Race, host Simma Lieberman, The Inclusionist, invites Dr. Lonny Avi Brooks, a professor of communication and Afrofuturism, to discuss his unique background as a Jewish, Black, and Native American individual. Avi and Simma explore the intersectionality of race and religion considering recent conversations on anti-Semitism and racism. The conversation also delves into the concept of Afrofuturism and its significance. Tune in to gain insights and engage in an Everyday Conversation on Race.

Dr. Lonny Avi Brooks emphasizes the importance of acknowledging and respecting the rich cultures and dignities of others for personal growth and self-understanding. When you disregard or suppress someone else's culture, you limit your own potential for a fulfilling life. He shares what it means to him to be Black, Jewish, and Native American in his everyday life and the impact it has had on his relationships, and the actions he has taken to eliminate racism, antisemitism, and all forms of hate. He recounts his earliest memories of going to synagogue with his brother and how he integrates and loves who he is today. Lonny Avi Brooks is busy traveling and speaking on Afrofuturism, is active in synagogue and Jewish life, as well as involved in Native American communities.

Key Points in this episode:

• Recognizing and appreciating diverse cultures, allows individuals to gain a deeper understanding of themselves and the world around them.

• How systemic oppression, crime, and homelessness are all results of a lack of understanding and respect for differences and denial of opportunities and inequality. By disrespecting and trivializing other cultures, people who subscribe covertly or overtly to white supremacist culture not only harm others but also hinder their own growth and understanding of the world.

• Experience of being Black and Jewish in a mostly white Jewish synagogue

• Dismantling the myth that all Jewish people are white and looking at the depth,  complexities, and similarities amongst Jewish people across the world.

 • How Afrofuturism serves to preserve and expand Black culture. Guerrilla tactics are used to showcase the existence, power, and potential of Black people. By appreciating and valuing the culture and history of others, individuals, both Black and non-Black, can contribute to a more inclusive and equitable society.

 • Why acknowledging and respecting the rich cultures and dignities of others is not only essential for personal growth and self-understanding but also for creating a more just and harmonious society.

• The way that Afrofuturism and other futurisms empower individuals and communities by fostering self-esteem, creativity, and innovation.

 • Why it's essential that all individuals know their own history and cultural background to have a sense of identity and motivation that will guide their success. Afrofuturism, along with Indigenous Futurism, queer futurism, Jewish Futurism, and Arab Futurism, provides diverse visions of the future that inspire and empower young people.

 • When people know where they come from. their history and the contributions of "their peoples," it encourages them to be more self-confident and creative.

 • Why Afrofuturism plays an important role in reclaiming lost cultural heritage erased by colonialism. By leveraging the past and projecting it into the future, Afrofuturism allows individuals and communities to preserve their cultural heritage while envisioning new possibilities. This process is particularly important in the face of attempts to erase the history of Black people.

 • The crisis in the US with some state governments and school boards, eliminating African American history from their curriculum. They are "rewriting American history," even claiming that there was "personal benefit from slavery for enslaved people."

 • Futurism movements offer diverse visions of the future that represent marginalized communities and encourage individuals to make a difference for themselves and their own groups.

 • Why it is essential that people engage in conversations about race and antisemitism, and other "isms" to break down barriers and promote understanding between people of different racial backgrounds.

 • Why Octavia Butler, Afrofuturism, Black Panthers. Greenwood, Tulsa, “The Watchman” are all important.

• Simma Lieberman acknowledges that many individuals may feel hesitant or afraid to have these conversations due to the fear of saying the wrong thing, feeling attacked, or being ignored or trivialized. However, this podcast, Everyday Conversations on Race for Everyday People, aims to create a safe space for these conversations, encouraging listeners to overcome their fears and engage in dialogue.

To learn more:

• Attend conferences and events that focus on race, such as Afrofuturism or Afrocomiccon. By participating in these gatherings, individuals can engage in conversations about race, learn from experts in the field, and broaden their understanding of different racial experiences.

• Read histories of African Americans, Africa, Judaism, racism, antisemitism, and indigenous history.

• Learn about intersectionality across race, culture, and other differences.

Timestamps

[00:01:05] Afrofuturism and identity/ Jewish, Black, and Native American

[00:04:55] Multicultural identity and cultural questioning.

 [00:09:38] Mishap at the synagogue with Avi Brooks and his brother

[00:15:06] Hebrew school and re-envisioning inclusivity.

[00:19:16] Systemic white supremacy and culture.

[00:24:33] Ethnic inner-ethnic war/the realities of antisemitism and racism

[00:27:10] Cultural Vibranium and Afrofuturism.

[00:32:06] The Black Speculative Arts Movement.

[00:38:41] Afrofuturism and new creativity.

[00:41:02] African music and artists.

[00:46:31] Attending Afrofuturism and Comic Cons.

[00:49:24] Inclusion in conversation with Dr. Lonnie Avi Brooks.

Guest Bio

Dr. Lonny Avi Brooks is Professor in Communication, Cal State University, East Bay. Co-executive producer, The Afrofuturist Podcast; co-organizer, Black Speculative Arts Movement; co-founder with Ahmed Best of the AfroRithm Futures Group; co-designer of the game Afro-Rithms From The Future. Co-founder, the Community Futures School, Museum of Children’s Arts (MOCHA). Research Affiliate@Institute For The Future & Long Now Foundation Fellow and visiting professor@ the Stanford d.school. Author, “From Algorithms to AfroRithms in Afrofuturism” in Black Experience in Design: Identity, Expression & Reflection.

Host Bio

Simma Lieberman, The Inclusionist helps leaders create inclusive cultures. She is a consultant, speaker and facilitator and the host of the podcast, “Everyday Conversations on Race for Everyday People.” Simma is the creator of the program, "Inclusive Leadership from the Inside Out."

Contact Simma@SimmaLieberman.com

Go to www.simmalieberman.com and www.raceconvo.com for more information

Simma is a member of and inspired by the global organization IAC (Inclusion Allies Coalition) 

Connect with Simma:

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From grassroots movements to political advocacy, explore the powerful journey of Dalit activists working towards dismantling caste oppression.

In this episode, you will be able to:

●     Shatter the silence surrounding caste discrimination in US-based South Asian communities.

●     Delve into the world of Dalit rights activism to understand the struggle against centuries-old caste subjugation.

●     Grasp why legislation against caste discrimination in California could be a game changer.

●     Realize the paramount importance of caste equity competency in breaking down workplace barriers.

●     Get attuned to how somatics can mend the psychological wounds inflicted by caste discrimination over generations.

My special guest is Thenmozhi Soundararajan

Joining the conversation is Thenmozhi Soundararajan, a Dalit rights activist born in the heart of East Los Angeles, bringing a fresh perspective to igniting change for Indian Americans and marginalized communities. Raised in the harsh reality of structural casteism, she uses her lived experiences as the foundation of her fight against this persistent issue. Additionally, she is admired for her talents as a transmedia storyteller, songwriter, writer, hip-hop musician, technologist, and author of The Trauma of Caste: A Dalit Feminist Meditation on Survivorship, Healing, and Abolition. Her story and experiences form an intricate tapestry of struggle, resilience, and commitment, making her an invaluable guest on the topic of Dalit rights and caste discrimination.

The key moments in this episode are:

00:00:02 - Introduction
00:01:19 - Guest Introduction
00:03:40 - What is Caste?
00:07:19 - Caste Discrimination in the US
00:09:19 - Personal Experience and Hiding Identity
00:16:46 - Addressing Misconceptions about Trafficking
00:17:20 - Structural Caste and Sexual Exploitation
00:18:19 - The Need for Civil Rights Organizations
00:19:35 - Discrimination and the Fight for Caste Equity
00:24:35 - Caste as a Protected Category
00:32:28 - The Impact of Caste Oppression
00:34:09 - Changing Hearts and Minds
00:35:11 - Discrimination within South Asian Communities
00:37:54 - Groundbreaking Conversations and Unity
00:39:10 - Responding to Denial of Caste

The resources mentioned in this episode are:

●     Go to the website www.RaceConvo.com to listen to more episodes of the show and engage in conversations about race.

●     Please share the show with at least one or two other people who may be interested in having conversations about race.

●     If you enjoy the show, please leave a review to help support it. Don't forget to give it five stars if you think it's a five-star show.

●     If you'd like to help support the show, you can make a tax-deductible donation by clicking on the donate button on the website.

●     To understand more about caste and Dalit rights, visit Equality Labs, an organization fighting for caste equity and civil rights. Learn about their work and support their cause.

●     Support the coalition led by Equality Labs and Senator Ayesha Wahab to make California the first state to ban caste discrimination. Stay updated on their progress and join their efforts.

Guest Bio

Thenmozhi Soundararajan is a Dalit rights activist based in the United States. She is a transmedia storyteller, songwriter, hip-hop musician and technologist. She founded Equality Labs, which “is an Ambedkarite South Asian power-building organization that uses community research, political base-building, culture-shifting art, and digital security to end the oppression of caste apartheid, Islamophobia, white supremacy, and religious intolerance.” Her work and writings against caste oppression in the United States have been featured in The New York Times and The Washington Post.

Host Bio

Simma Lieberman, The Inclusionist helps leaders create inclusive cultures. She is a consultant, speaker and facilitator and the host of the podcast, “Everyday Conversations on Race for Everyday People.”

Contact Simma@SimmaLieberman.com

Go to www.simmalieberman.com and www.raceconvo.com for more information

Simma is a member of and inspired by the global organization IAC (Inclusion Allies Coalition) 

Connect with me:

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In this conversation on race, Simma talks with John Blake, a well-known author, and journalist with CNN. He reports on race, religion, and politics. His most recent book is, More Than I Imagined: What a Black Man Discovered About the White Mother He Never Knew

John Blake's story begins with a familiar narrative of a biracial child struggling to find their place in a racially divided America. But just when you think you know where the story is headed, a surprising twist throws everything into question. What happens when John meets his estranged white family members as an adult? Will he reject them as he did with his white heritage? Or will he embrace them, leading to a transformative journey of empathy and forgiveness? Join us as we explore John's journey of racial reconciliation and the power of relationships in bridging seemingly impossible divides.

Why Race Is Important

Race is a central theme not only in the personal lives of many individuals but also in the larger context of American society. Understanding the importance of race requires recognizing that it shapes people's experiences, opportunities, and challenges in significant ways. By talking about race and valuing the various perspectives and experiences that come from different racial backgrounds, people can grow in empathy, cultivate meaningful relationships, and foster a more equitable and just society. In the conversation between Simma Lieberman and John Blake, John shares that his own experiences growing up as a biracial child with a white mother and black father has had a profound impact on his life, shaping both his personal struggles and his professional pursuits as a journalist reporting on race relations in America. He emphasizes that race is a key element in understanding and addressing social issues and that acknowledging and embracing diversity can ultimately bring people together and create a better society.

In this episode, you will be able to:

• Realize the potential of building bridges across racial divides for a more inclusive society.
• Grasp the impact of compassion and pardoning in breaking the shackles of prejudiced thinking.
• Appreciate how knowledge can be a catalyst for change in combating racism.
• Understand the intricacies of racial outlooks and the space for growth and transformation.
• Appreciate the value of purposeful diversity and interaction in minimizing bias.

The resources and solutions mentioned in this episode are:

• Purchase John Blake's book More Than I Imagined: What a Black Man Discovered About the White Mother He Never Knew
• Read John Blake's articles on CNN about race, religion, and politics
• Participate in Simma Lieberman's facilitated dialogues to bring people together across race
• Practice empathy and forgiveness towards individuals who may hold racist attitudes or beliefs
• Read books by authors like Ibram X. Kendi and Jon Blake to educate yourself on race and racism
• Take action towards creating a successful multiracial, multireligious democracy by working towards racial justice and equality in your community.

The key moments in this episode are

00:00:02 - Introduction

00:01:53 - Why Race Is Important

00:03:54 - Discovering His Mother's Race

00:05:49 - Meeting His Mentally Ill Mother

00:11:02 - Lessons About Empathy and Forgiveness

00:15:52 - The Importance of Relationships in Combating Racism

00:17:47 - The Need for Intentional Diversity

00:19:19 - Telling Optimistic Stories

00:21:57 - The Continual Conversion Process

00:26:45 - Creating Opportunities for Meaningful Contact

00:30:28 - Importance of Diversity in Communities

00:34:52 - The Capacity for Change in Racism

00:37:57 - Cancel Culture and the Importance of Listening

00:41:01 - Personal Music and Book Recommendations

00:42:08 - Recommended Readings and Eric Liu's Work

Guest Bio

John Blake is an award-winning journalist at CNN.com, the online site for CNN and an author. He has been honored by the Associated Press, the Society of Professional Journalists, the American Academy of Religion, the National Association of Black Journalists, the Religion Communicators Council and with the GLAAD Media Award. He was most recently the winner of the 2019 Sigma Delta Chi awards for Excellence in Journalism for his online columns on race and politics. His 2020 essay, “There’s One Epidemic We May Never Find a Cure For: Fear of Black Men in Public Spaces,” was recently selected by Bustle Digital Group as one of the 11 best essays on racism and police violence. The other authors on that list included Ta-Nehisi Coates, Ibram X. Kendi, and Roxane Gay. Blake’s book, “Children of the Movement,” was a finalist for the 2005 NAACP Image Awards in the Outstanding Literary Work Non-Fiction category and a finalist for the Gustavus Myers Outstanding Book Awards. He has spoken at high schools, colleges, symposiums, and in documentaries about topics such as race, religion, and politics. Blake is a native of Baltimore, Maryland, and a graduate of Howard University.

Host Bio

Simma Lieberman, The Inclusionist helps leaders create inclusive cultures. She is a consultant, speaker and facilitator and the host of the podcast, “Everyday Conversations on Race for Everyday People.”

Contact Simma@SimmaLieberman.com

Go to www.simmalieberman.com and www.raceconvo.com for more information

Simma is a member of and inspired by the global organization IAC (Inclusion Allies Coalition) 

Connect with me:

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Facebook

YouTube

Twitter

LinkedIn

Tiktok

Website

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Join Everyday Conversations on Race for Everyday People, the podcast that brings real talk and real change to the forefront.

In a society where race, culture, and identity are often sources of division, bridging the conversation on race and equity is imperative. By fostering open and honest dialogues, organizations can create safe spaces for employees to share their experiences and perspectives, ultimately leading to a more inclusive and equitable workplace.

Simma Lieberman, Sally Helgesen, and Mercedes Martin explored the importance of bridging the conversation on race and equity during their discussion. They acknowledged the challenges of fostering these dialogues and shared their experiences in navigating the complexities of identity, race, and belonging.

Sally reflected on her close relationships with African Americans throughout her life and the impact of their struggles on shaping her understanding of race and equity.

Mercedes, an Afro-Latina woman from Cuba, spoke about her purpose in helping organizations tackle diversity and inclusion by shifting mindsets and embracing collaboration.

In this episode, you will be able to:

● Discover the significance of uniting as a team to create an all-embracing workplace environment.

•Embrace the benefits of acknowledging various personal histories and experiences.

• Acquire tools for seeking common ground and defusing challenging situations to resolve conflicts and misunderstandings

● Explore the expansion of diversity beyond gender, focusing on race and values.

● Recognize the importance of appreciating different backgrounds and experiences.

● Understand the role of individual change in sustaining diversity and inclusion among leaders.

● Learn how to identify commonalities and navigate through difficult situations to overcome division and polarization.

During the episode, Sally Helgesen and Mercedes Martin shared their personal experiences and emphasized the importance of fostering a sense of belonging within the workplace. They discussed the power of embracing people's diverse backgrounds, experiences, and perspectives in order to build stronger connections and more effective workforces. Simma Lieberman highlighted the need to support one another and rise together in the pursuit of inclusion and equity, sharing insights from both Sally's and Mercedes's experiences in the field.

Sally, Mercedes and Simma discuss the urgency of sustainable change and emphasize that in order to sustain change, it is necessary to start from within. They talk about the importance of transforming oneself along with the organization and how change management needs to involve everyone in the organization. They also talk about the fear of leadership in addressing diversity and inclusion, especially pertaining to race, and how it needs to start with a clear why and work with the leadership in understanding the need for change.

The key moments in this episode are:

00:01:13 - Introduction of Sally Helgesen   

00:02:26 - Introduction of Mercedes Martin  

00:06:49 - Sally Helgesen's motivation for writing "Rising Together"

00:09:53 - Introduction of Mercedes Martin's background and cultural identity

00:19:07 - Creating a Culture of Inclusion

00:22:23 - The Importance of Inclusive Leadership    

00:24:10 - Bridging the Conversation on Race and Equity

00:27:20 - Multiple Identities and Belonging   

00:35:33 - The Importance of Self-reflection

00:37:24 - Importance of Authentic Leadership for Inclusion

00:39:05 - Characteristics of Inclusive Leadership  

00:42:43 - Sustainable Change: Individual and Systemic Change

00:48:00 - Inhabiting the Middle Amidst Polarization      

Guest Bio

Sally Helgesen is a renowned expert on women's leadership and an internationally bestselling author, speaker, and leadership coach. Honored in Forbes as the world's premier expert on women's leadership, she has been inducted into the Thinkers 50 Hall of Fame, which recognizes influential leaders in the field of leadership worldwide. Ranked number three among the world's thought leaders by Global Gurus, Sally has recently released her book, Rising Together, which offers practical ways to build more inclusive relationships, teams, and workplaces.

Mercedes Martin is a native Spanish-speaking international executive coach and consultant from Cuba with a wealth of experience in global leadership, diversity, and sustainability development. Working with Fortune 50 companies such as PepsiCo, Proctor and Gamble, Shell Oil, and Kellogg's, Mercedes has helped senior leaders, women, and people of color rise in their careers. As the founder of Mercedes Martin and Company, she continues to focus on supporting leadership in rewiring their mindset and embracing conversations on diversity, equity, and belonging.

Host Bio

Simma Lieberman, The Inclusionist helps leaders create inclusive cultures. She is a consultant, speaker and facilitator and the host of the podcast, “Everyday Conversations on Race for Everyday People.”

Contact Simma@SimmaLieberman.com

Go to www.simmalieberman.com and www.raceconvo.com for more information

Simma is a member of and inspired by the global organization IAC (Inclusion Allies Coalition)

Connect with me:
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Facebook
YouTube
Twitter
LinkedIn
Tiktok
Website

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From being called the N-word as a child to becoming a successful entrepreneur and leader in the pursuit of racial equality and justice, Randal Pinkett's very personal story is a testament to courage and resilience. Yet, despite his success, Randal still faces an unexpected challenge: convincing organizations to embrace the power of race to drive meaningful change.

After 30 years in business, Randal Pinkett, a trained computer scientist and DEI expert, faced an ironic twist of fate when an acquisitions editor at his publisher challenges him to confront his own deeply held beliefs and write a book on Data Driven DEI, forcing him to embark on a journey to change the people, and ultimately the organizations, around him.

Are you frustrated with trying to improve DEI in your organization, only to be met with stagnant results? Discover how to break through the status quo by leveraging data-driven solutions, targeted universalism strategies, meaningful conversations about race, and effective leadership to cultivate real change.

Key Takeaways:

• Dr. Randal Pinkett's personal journey as a young Black man impacted by racism that led him to become a leader in Diversity, Equity and Inclusion.

• Harness data-driven tools to effectively measure diversity, equity, and inclusion.

• What it means to apply targeted universalism strategies to fight systemic racism and promote equality.

• Navigate challenging racial conversations for constructive and positive outcomes.

• Comprehend the critical role of leadership in cultivating inclusive work environments.

• Investigate the effects of social media echo chambers on society and individuals.

00:02 - Introduction,
Simma Lieberman introduces the podcast and the guest, Dr. Randall Pinkett, who is an entrepreneur, innovator, and DEI expert. She also talks about the purpose of the podcast, which is to have comfortable conversations about race between people of different races.

02:47 - About Randall Pinkett and Data Driven DEI, 
Randall Pinkett talks about his background, growing up as a Black person in a predominantly White neighborhood, and his experience of racism at a young age. He also discusses his book, Data Driven DEI which focuses on personal and organizational assessments to promote diversity, equity, and inclusion.

08:10 - People Change,
Randall Pinkett emphasizes that organizations don't change, people do. He explains that for any organization to transform, individuals must undertake a personal journey of self-reflection and growth. He also talks about the importance of targeting his book towards everyday people, who want to foster more diverse relationships and inclusive behaviors.

09:10 - Randall Pinkett's Entrepreneurial Journey,
How his entrepreneurial journey,  began at the age of 21 when he started a Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion training company with three other Black men. He talks about his desire to make a difference in the world and how he centered his company on addressing societal issues as an outgrowth of his lived experiences.

14:30 - Making a Difference in the World,
College years in the 1990s, a time when hip hop was coming of age, and there were growing conversations around black consciousness and black economic empowerment. He and his business partners wanted to make a difference in the world and  they used their entrepreneurial spirit to address societal issues.

16:26 - The Importance of Giving Back,
How growing up in a religious household and being a man of faith has taught him to use his talents and gifts to benefit others. Randal Pinkett believes that success is what you do for yourself, while greatness is what you do for others.

18:20 - The Importance of Addressing Racism in DEI,
Pinkett highlights that race is a key identifier when looking at differences in how people experience the world. He stresses the need to assess ourselves for racial biases and preferences and to address them head-on, as they are often the most challenging and polarizing factors in DEI conversations.

24:39 - Taking a Nuanced Approach to Inclusion,
Pinkett discusses the importance of breaking down data by different demographic identifiers when assessing inclusion in organizations. He stresses that averages can obscure the experiences of subgroups and that it's critical to identify and address the needs of those who are not being included.

29:36 - The Importance of Seeking Diverse Perspectives, seeking out diverse perspectives when working on DEI initiatives. Being a narrow expert in one dimension can create blind spots and prevent the development of effective solutions. To achieve true diversity, equity, and inclusion, we must be willing to step out of our comfort zones and seek growth through diverse perspectives.

31:13 - Overcoming Divisiveness in DEI,
Pinkett acknowledges that the current political climate has seen an unfortunate mischaracterization of DEI as a divisive movement. He stresses that DEI is actually a countercultural movement that seeks to promote equity and inclusion for all, and that we must work to overcome divisive rhetoric and bridge divides in order to achieve progress.

31:53 - The Importance of Speaking Up,
Randal Pinkett emphasizes that it is important to speak up when someone says something wrong or offensive. He believes that people have a responsibility to help others see their mistakes and learn from them. He also discusses the idea of targeted universalism and how it can help achieve diversity, equity, and inclusion goals.

36:11 - Overcoming Personal Biases,
Randal Pinkett talks about his greatest challenge in the DEI space, which was being an American from the Northeast. He shares how studying at Oxford and being exposed to different cultures helped him overcome his biases and gain a fuller appreciation for diversity.

39:12 - Dispelling Myths about Racial Equality,
Randal Pinkett discusses the myth that remaining silent is better than speaking out about issues of race and racism. He also talks about the myth that individuals are the problem when it comes to racism, rather than the systems and institutions that allow racism to persist.

43:26 - The Four Dimensions of Racism,
Randal Pinkett explains the four dimensions of racism: personal, interpersonal, institutional, and systemic. He emphasizes the importance of addressing institutional and systemic racism in addition to personal and interpersonal racism to develop comprehensive solutions.

45:57 - The Myth of Colorblindness,
Randal Pinkett challenges the myth that being colorblind is the gold standard for seeing other people. He explains that denying someone's race, gender, or disability status can lead to treating them unfairly and that individuation, seeing people as individuals, is a better approach.


47:41 - Music Playlist,

49:28 - Relevant Films and Documentaries,


51:48 - Randall Pinkett's Books,

54:08 - Building Bridges,
Pinkett urges people to get out of their communities of the like-minded and build bridges to connect with people of different backgrounds and ideologies to save democracy. He emphasizes that bridge-building is crucial for connecting neighborhoods, communities, and people who would otherwise be disconnected.

Guests Bio 

Dr. Randal Pinkett has established himself as an entrepreneur, speaker, author and scholar, and as a leading voice for his generation in business and technology. He is the founder, chairman, and CEO of his fifth venture, BCT Partners, a multimillion-dollar research, consulting, training, technology, and analytics firm headquartered in Newark, New Jersey.

He is also the first Black person to win "The Apprentice" in 2005.

In addition, he has appeared numerous times on networks such as MSNBC, CNN, and Fox Business News as an expert on topics ranging from business and politics to diversity and inclusion to technology and innovation. 

Host Bio

Simma Lieberman, The Inclusionist helps leaders create inclusive cultures. She is a consultant, speaker and facilitator and the host of the podcast, “Everyday Conversations on Race for Everyday People.”

Contact Simma@SimmaLieberman.com

Go to www.simmalieberman.com and www.raceconvo.com for more information

Simma is a member of and inspired by the global organization IAC (Inclusion Allies Coalition)

Connect with me:
Instagram
Facebook
YouTube
Twitter
LinkedIn
Website

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In part 2 of this conversation on race, former police chiefs Ed Cronin and Mike Alexander, continue to address the problem of systemic racism in law enforcement, how it has impacted them personally and offer solutions. This is a deeply honest and open conversation on race, racism and the criminal justice system from two former senior police officers.

Systemic Racism in Law Enforcement and How to End It

 As a Black police officer in Texas, Mike Alexander faced not only bias, prejudice and racism from his White peers but also from some of the communities he served. 

Ed Cronin shares what it was like for him as a white police officer when he became aware of the systemic racism in the department and its impact on the communities he served. Hear his story of how he developed empathy and connection.

By carrying out open and honest conversations about race and racism, it's possible to find approaches that can contribute to a more just and understanding future. In the episode, Ed Cronin discusses his initial assumptions that police officers would be compassionate and empathetic, only to learn about the corruption present in the force. He believes that his own experiences of trauma and violence resonate with the Black community's experience.

Across the world, systemic racism exists in law enforcement and impacts the fair application of law and order. It's essential to recognize and address this persistent problem to create an equitable environment for people of all races and backgrounds. Acknowledging and being aware of systemic racism helps individuals understand and empathize with the experiences of those disproportionately affected by this phenomenon. In Part 2, of Cops Against Systemic Racism, Mike and Ed envision the changes that are possible in the police department to dismantle systemic racism and make a difference in low-income and non-white communities.

After listening to this episode, you will be able to:

· Understand the impact of systemic racism on law enforcement practices.

· Discover the pivotal role of community-focused policing in building trust.

· Learn the importance of empathy, de-escalation, and bias training in police work.

· See the benefits of embracing diversity and inclusivity in police departments.

· Explore how technology can advance transparency and work toward positive reform.

• Gain new insights and envision how a police force can serve communities and dismantle systemic racism

The key moments in this episode are:

04:48 - The Police are Doing What  Some of the Public Wants Them to Do, While Other Members of the Public are Harassed and Mistreated,

08:19 - The Problem with Bias in Law Enforcement, 

16:30 - Solutions to Address Systemic Racism in Law Enforcement, 

19:30 - The Role of Psychological Safety, 

43:00 - Showing Empathy and Lack of Empathy. 
Lessons in Power, Police and Community

46:28 - Neighborhood Architecture and Systemic Racism, 

48:05 - Building Relationships Between Law Enforcement and Community 

Guests Bio

Ed Cronin has worked in the law enforcement field for over 35 years. His career includes experience as a Police Chief in two cities in Massachusetts. He holds a graduate degree in Criminal Justice Management along with an advanced graduate degree in Organizational Development and Systems Thinking from Suffolk University. He is also a certified executive coach. (Institute of Professional Excellence in Coaching)

Mike Alexander is a nationally recognized expert in training and leadership coaching, a specialty that began and flourished during his 38-year career in law enforcement and has defined the years following his retirement from service. Through the U.S. Department of Justice Community Policing Divisions, the thirty-six (36) Regional Community Policing Institute, the Multi-jurisdictional Counterdrug Task Force Training Center, the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center, the Texas Municipal League, the International Law Enforcement Administration, and the Texas Police Chiefs Association, he has traveled the nation training officers and community members on ethics and integrity. 

Host Bio

Simma Lieberman, The Inclusionist helps leaders create inclusive cultures. She is a consultant, speaker and facilitator and the host of the podcast, “Everyday Conversations on Race for Everyday People.”

Contact Simma@SimmaLieberman.com

Go to www.simmalieberman.com and www.raceconvo.com for more information

Simma is a member of and inspired by the global organization IAC (Inclusion Allies Coalition)

Previous Episodes

You want to listen to this conversation on race with former police chiefs, Ed Cronin and Mike Alexander about the problem and of systemic racism in law enforcement and the solutions to end it.

In this two part podcast episode, Ed Cronin and Mike Alexander, two police officers with vastly different backgrounds, strive to bridge the immense divide between the awareness of systemic racism in law enforcement, and the reality of it through honest conversations and courageous leadership.

Systemic Racism in Law Enforcement and How to End It

Mike Alexander shares his story of being a Black police officer and the struggles he faced with biases and prejudices from his White peers. Both guests agree about the presence of systemic racism within law enforcement, with Mike recognizing the operating system perpetuating this in the force.

By carrying out open and honest conversations about race and racism, it's possible to find approaches that can contribute to a more just and understanding future. In the episode, Ed Cronin discusses his initial assumptions that police officers would be compassionate and empathetic, only to learn about the corruption present in the force. He believes that his own experiences of trauma and violence resonate with the Black community's experience.

Across the world, systemic racism exists in law enforcement and impacts the fair application of law and order. It's essential to recognize and address this persistent problem to create an equitable environment for people of all races and backgrounds. Acknowledging and being aware of systemic racism helps individuals understand and empathize with the experiences of those disproportionately affected by this phenomenon.

After listening to this episode, you will be able to:

· Understand the impact of systemic racism on law enforcement practices.

· Discover the pivotal role of community-focused policing in building trust.

· Learn the importance of empathy, de-escalation, and bias training in police work.

· See the benefits of embracing diversity and inclusivity in police departments.

· Explore how technology can advance transparency and work toward positive reform.

The key moments in this episode are:

00:01:31 - Mike Alexander's background and experience as a Black police officer and then a police-chief in Texas

00:08:01 - Ed Cronin's background and experience as a White police officer and police-chief in Massachusetts and how he developed an awareness of racism in the police-department

00:11:44 - Different Forms of Leadership

00:17:22 - Finding Empowerment and Overcoming Experiences

00:18:03 - Becoming a Police Officer

00:24:31 - Dealing with Racism as a Black Police Officer

00:27:57 - Addressing Micro Issues to Mitigate Macro Issues

00:30:41 - The Potential and Struggle of Law Enforcement

00:34:54 - Overcoming Addiction and Learning About the Problem

00:37:19 - Racism is Real and Needs to Be Addressed

00:40:16 - One Hand Tied Behind the Back When Addressing Injustice, Racism and Bias in the Police Department

00:43:31 - The System of  Systemic Racism in Law Enforcement

Guest Bio

Ed Cronin has worked in the law enforcement field for over 35 years. His career includes experience as a Police Chief in two cities in Massachusetts. He holds a graduate degree in Criminal Justice Management along with an advanced graduate degree in Organizational Development and Systems Thinking from Suffolk University. He is also a certified executive coach. (Institute of Professional Excellence in Coaching)

Mike Alexander is a nationally recognized expert in training and leadership coaching, a specialty that began and flourished during his 38-year career in law enforcement and has defined the years following his retirement from service. Through the U.S. Department of Justice Community Policing Divisions, the thirty-six (36) Regional Community Policing Institute, the Multi-jurisdictional Counterdrug Task Force Training Center, the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center, the Texas Municipal League, the International Law Enforcement Administration, and the Texas Police Chiefs Association, he has traveled the nation training officers and community members on ethics and integrity. 

Host Bio

Simma Lieberman, The Inclusionist helps leaders create inclusive cultures. She is a consultant, speaker and facilitator and the host of the podcast, “Everyday Conversations on Race for Everyday People.”

Contact Simma@SimmaLieberman.com

Go to www.simmalieberman.com and www.raceconvo.com for more information

Simma is a member of and inspired by the global organization IAC (Inclusion Allies Coalition)

Previous Episodes

Joel A Davis Brown: Challenging Norms & Exploring Queer Leadership in an Unpredictable World

Dr. Joel A. Davis Brown is an author, educator, and LGBTQ activist. He is the author of the book The Souls of Queer Folk, which explores the power of queer wisdom and its potential to transform leadership practices.
 
Dr. Joel A Davis Brown set out to explore what it meant to be queer, but found that his research didn't satisfy him. With encouragement from friends, he wrote a book to explore the answer to this question. In  The Souls of Queer Folk, he shares the wisdom of the queer community that has enabled queer people to survive and thrive in a hostile world. He argues that this wisdom can help us all to navigate our increasingly volatile society and elevate our leadership practice. He reminds us that queer people are strong and have been fighting for their rights for centuries, and that it is important to stay focused on those who need the most attention.

In this episode, you will learn the following:
 
1. What is queer wisdom and why is it important?
2. What are LGBTQ leadership lessons and how can they elevate and transform leadership practice?
3. What is the inclusion paradox and how does it illustrate the current situation for marginalized communities?
 
Chapter Summaries:
 

[00:02:39]
Joel Brown introduces his book called The Souls of Queer Folk. 
Joel talks about Queer Wisdom and its importance.

 
[00:08:03]
Inclusion paradox: The idea that seemingly, if you just look at television and pop culture and media, it could feel like we have a lot more rights than we do. That in and of itself, makes it hard for people to understand that we are actually dealing with very unprecedented, dangerous times.
 
 
[00:17:59]
The wisdom that our community has provided has helped people to avoid discrimination, recrimination and death. And the queer wisdom is informed by a number of different communities. What leadership comes down to is giving yourself permission to be yourself.
 
 
[00:21:40]
Simma asks: 

So what made you, Joel Brown, Black gay man who was successful, very successful, made you decide to write this book?

 Joe says, "If I may say so myself. I didn't seek to write a book. I think, you know me. I'm doing my thing."

[00:25:49]
When we think about culture, we have to recognize that there are three different layers of culture. There are common things and themes that separate the LGBTQ community or distinguish us from others. Are there differences based on the subgroups? 

I'm not trying to say that everybody's the same, but there are values, and the values would tie us together, and that's what helps us to build community. There's a qualitative difference in terms of how people socialize. The work, of course, there's more work to be done
 
[00:33:32]
In every culture, every group that's been oppressed, there's some parts of culture that are as a result of the oppression. But there's also some parts that are just like part of the culture. It's hard to separate a culture from a system because this is the system as we know it.
 
 [00:43:41]
Leadership is not just about leading the organization, leading the workforce or leading the team. It's about leading yourself. The queer community has insight and wisdom that can help people to figure out how to reclaim their voice, to be resilient and to be adaptive.

[00:49:03]

Joel's playlist: "I'm listening to a lot of Afrobeats. Also listening to music from Belgium, particularly Brussels. A lot of the hot Hip Hop and R&B in Europe are coming from there."

 
[00:56:17]
Joel Anthony Davis Brown talks about his new book, "The Souls of Queer folk" How understanding LGBTQ culture can transform your leadership practice. 

Guest Bio
Dr. Joel A. Davis Brown is the Chief Visionary Officer of Pneumos LLC, a management consulting company based in San Francisco, California, and Nairobi, Kenya, specializing in cultural intelligence, leadership development, organizational strategy and change management, and strategic storytelling. Joel is also the co-owner of the Global Inclusion Certification Program, a training and certification company that trains practitioners to support equity work and systems change on a global scale. for As a change agent, Joel works strategically with organizational leaders and professionals to cultivate innovative, creative, and adaptive environments where the cultural genius of everyone can be harnessed and leveraged successfully.  In particular, Joel works with organizational clients to foster psychological safety, healing, belonging, and transformation. His work spans 5 continents.  His mission is to facilitate liberation for every global citizen.
 

Connect with me:
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LinkedIn
Website

Previous Episodes:
From Harlem to Harvard: How Dorien Nuñez Tackled the Racial Wealth Disparity
Unraveling Racial History: Benjamin Jealous’s Quest for Freedom
Navigating Racism and Inclusion with Greg Jenkins, Nirupa Netram, and Elinor Stutz
 

Related Episodes:
Living While Black
What is behind the cancel-culture movement?
Race, Racism and Hope in 2021

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Dorien Nuñez is a New York City native, amateur astronomer, and former professional Sax player. He has celebrated 50 years on Wall Street, is a first generation college grad from Harvard, and is a proud alum of the New York City public school system. He is a co-founder of a group of Harvard Black and Latinx alumni serving on corporate boards, and is a Senior Fellow at Intentional Endowments Network.

Dorien Nuñez’s journey to understanding the racial wealth disparity began in his childhood, growing up in Brooklyn but attending an elite mostly White high school in the suburbs. He was inspired by the achievements of people like Benjamin Banneker, and had mentors like his schoolteachers, who helped him develop his talents. At a young age, he began to understand the importance of money and developed entrepreneurial skills. With the help of his mentors, he was accepted to prestigious boarding schools and eventually Harvard Business School. His experiences gave him the insight to understand the systemic issues in capitalism and banking, leading him to dedicate his career to helping others to invest and create wealth. With his commitment to mentorship, Dorien Nuñez is helping to close the racial wealth gap and empower people to create and achieve unlimited success.

1. Exploring the economic disparities between white and black people in the US.

2. Investigating the role of mentors and how they help individuals succeed.

3. Decoding the secrets to becoming a millionaire by investing wisely.

Chapter Summaries:

[00:03:21]

The wealth disparity between black and white people. What does it mean when we talk about generational wealth?

[00:08:47]

Dorien was born in Harlem and then moved to Brooklyn. Got a scholarship to go to an elite white boarding school, St. Paul's School in Concord, New Hampshire. His first mentors were his school teachers. Ended up going to Harvard Business School.

[00:14:55]

When he was nine years old, he saw an article about the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. His mentors saw something in him and nurtured it. This leads him to try to find and mentor high school students and college students.

[00:17:32]

As a child, he was entrepreneurial. "The hardest job to get on Wall Street is your first job." His advice to anybody out there is to learn about money. You can't get rich if you don't know about money.

[00:23:53]

Credit scores are important and people can raise their credit scores. All kinds of free services will help you repair your credit. More and more entities are providing capital to people with lower credit scores. Things are getting easier and better, but you still have to take responsibility and get your budget in order.

[00:31:10]

"Well, when I went away to boarding school, it was practically all mostly white boarding school. I was there to get a good education, to learn what I could, and to take it back home. That was my mission. At age 14, I knew what I was going to do."

[00:31:40]

"The House of Representatives kept Adam Clayton Powell from taking his seat. So if they wanted to, they could keep George Santos in his seat. And in California, they recalled Governor Davis." "We'll send any listeners to this show, who calls in or sends Simma an email a free report on "Ten Things You Could Do To Save Money and Invest and Three Things You Can Teach Your Children."

[00:34:11]

The term Redlining comes from when the banks or insurance company would draw a red line around the neighborhood. They would not loan money to people in Black neighborhoods or sell houses to Black people to move into white neighborhoods. Redlining is not as obvious as it has been in the past, but it still exists and it's an impediment. The only solution is to sue them when this happens. You got to make them pay economically.

[00:36:40]

Dorien's experience with race and racism. How they were treated differently and that being black is not that easy.

[00:44:00]

There are a lot of Black networks that people need to know about and be part of. If you're not part of those natural networks, then you have to find your own and build your own. That's part of wealth building

[00:49:30]

What is in Dorien Nuñez's favorite playlist, films, movies, shows, and books?

Guest Bio

Dorien Nuñez, Co-Founder and Director of Research, OMNIResearch Group. He is also the Co-founder of OMNI Wall St Advantage. Created the OMNI "WOKE" Investment Research based on his decades of expertise in ESG issues and emerging manager/minority business development programs. Has helped launch venture capital funds and loan programs for woman-owned and minority-owned businesses, raised funds for the Emerging Manager Trust which became FIS (now EXPONA), and continues to consult for new and emerging funds.

Host Bio

Simma Lieberman, The Inclusionist helps leaders create inclusive cultures. She is a consultant, speaker and facilitator and the host of the podcast, “Everyday Conversations on Race for Everyday People.”

Contact Simma@SimmaLieberman.com

Go to www.simmalieberman.com and www.raceconvo.com for more information

Simma is a member of and inspired by the global organization IAC (Inclusion Allies Coalition)

Previous Episodes

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After a DNA test reveals he is a descendant of both Robert E. Lee and a former slave, Benjamin Jealous embarks on a Wild Ride to uncover the truth about the oldest open wound in America and the possibility of bridging the divide between black and white

Benjamin Jealous is ouir guest on this episode of Everyday Conversations on Race for Everyday People. He is a former president of the NAACP, a civil rights activist, and an author. He is the author of the book, "Never Forget: Our People Were Always Free," which explores racism, the history of the United States, and the power of storytelling.

In this episode, you will learn the following:

1. How is racism still affecting our country today?

2. What can we do to bridge the divide between different groups of people?

3. How did the concept of race originate and how has it been used to divide us?

Chapter Summaries:

[00:25]

 The book is about the oldest open wound in this country, the wound of racism. Author wrote it as a series of speeches, or monologues to his computer. The book is a very conversational book, a book a lot of people find surprisingly funny.

[09:38]

 Richard Yates Bland was the last white Bland to own my family. Robert Lee was the leader of the black Republicans in Virginia. What gives a slave man hubris to lead entire political parties?

[18:23]

 The title comes from something that we believe was first said by our female Kunta Kente of our family if you will. Never forget, our people were always free. That's what all the women in Atlanta I've ever known of were rebellious. And that's what put the steel in their spine.

[28:17]

 Dr. King was trying to bring poor white folks and poor black folks together to build a better America. The ultimate purpose of racism is to divide these two groups so they can't assert their right to get out of poverty. The media should show the real face of poverty, which is black and white and brown and Asian.

Guest Bio

Ben Jealous, is the youngest-ever person to have been elected as the national NAACP President; was just named the Sierra Club's Executive Director (the first person of color selected for the post), and is also a University of Pennsylvania, Professor of Practice. Timed for Black History Month, his new book just hit #1 in the African-American biographies category on Amazon. While researching the book, Jealous learned he is a cousin to slave owner Thomas Jefferson, confederate Robert E. Lee; AND a distant cousin of Dick Cheney! The book is dedicated to his grandmother who taught him to ’never forget our people were always free,’ which he considers his personal mantra of inspiration—hoping that we all: White/Black, Democrat/Republican—can finally join together to snuff out race; which Jealous says was not what our country was built on in the first place.

Host Bio

Simma Lieberman, The Inclusionist helps leaders create inclusive cultures. She is a consultant, speaker and facilitator and the host of the podcast, “Everyday Conversations on Race for Everyday People.”

Contact Simma@SimmaLieberman.com

Go to www.simmalieberman.com and www.raceconvo.com for more information

Simma is a member of and inspired by the global organization IAC (Inclusion Allies Coalition)

When Greg Jenkins, Nirupa Netram, and Elinor Stutz, three colleagues and members of the Inclusion Allies Coalition, come together to discuss the importance of talking about race, they are confronted with their own diverse backgrounds, a goal to support those impacted by racism, and a central conflict between silence and open dialogue.

"It is important for us to understand that race is a very Western idea, but in the context of those parts of the world where race is an understood terminology to understand the effects of race and racism is important for us to, in the case of the IAC, help us understand people that are suffering because of the negative impacts of racism." - Greg Jenkins

Greg Jenkins is an older, white, straight male of Catholic upbringing who spent 28 years in the US Army and has been a diversity, equity, and inclusion consultant for the last 17 years. Nirupa Netram is an attorney and consultant of Indian descent and Hindu faith. Elinor Stutz is a Jewish woman, a best selling author, and the founder of Smooth Sale,

Greg, Nirupa, and Elinor, along with Simma, are colleagues and members of the Inclusion Allies Coalition. Each of them has a different cultural background and provides their own perspective on the importance of talking about race and the value of the Inclusion Allies Coalition. Elinor shares the story of her family's experience and her own experience in corporate. They explain why it is important to have conversations about race, speak out against racism and stand together with people who are different. The Inclusion Allies Coalition provides a safe space for entry into conversations about diversity, equity, and inclusion, and a way to connect with people from all around the world.

The Inclusion Allies Coalition brought together three colleagues and friends with a variety of cultural backgrounds. They discussed the importance of having conversations about race and the value of those conversations.

In this episode, you will learn the answers to the following:

1. How does being a member of the Inclusion Allies Coalition promote diversity, equity, and inclusion?
2. What challenges have been experienced by those who have been negatively impacted by racism?
3. How can people become more open to learning from those who are different?

Key Topics:

[00:45]

Three members of the Inclusion Allies Coalition appear on this week's podcast. Each person will give you two minutes, two sentences about themselves. They will give their name, their cultural background.

[03:09]

“Why do you think it's important to talk about race today?”

 We can't have silence now because you're going to call on us. Why is it an important conversation? Well, these are discussions that are happening globally in response to so many issues.

[04:48]

Elinor Stutz was raised not to talk about being Jewish because her family were holocaust surivors. She says antisemitism is on the rise and so is racism. It's important for groups to stand together and to really speak out together.

[09:02]

The Inclusion Allies Coalition brings together people from all over the world. They are  advocates for people that may be suffering, or negatively impacted by the topics that we're referring to here.

Greg finds value in networking with other colleagues that are trying to do good things in their world.

[11:09]

Being an IAC member allows you to gain access to global practitioners who support and take action to build inclusion.

Elinor shares what it means to her to meet so many people who diverse in so many ways.

[19:24]

When Elinor was growing up, her grammar was half English and half Yiddish. She felt weird all the time. People always told her she was weird.

[22:23]

Nirupa: “I was very lucky growing up. It wasn't until I moved to the US that I began to experience the negative aspects of race and racism.” She says she would walk into stores and be ignored or looked at a certain way. Nirupa believes people are fundamentally good and capable of change.

[27:07]

Simma ask Nirupa, “Do you think younger generations are more accepting of Diversity, Equity and Inclusion, or it's still the same?”

Nirupa “I would like to see the future in upcoming generations, that they are more inclusive. I again believe people are well intended and capable of change.”

[31:13]

Nirupa: “Inclusion Allies Coalition is an important place in that we can have conversations that we don't have normally. For some folks, like maybe the ones that you're referring to in Charlottesville, that frightens them. We have to create spaces to have the conversations.”

[33:35]

Simma: What would you like your friends to do to show support for you?

Nirupa: I think just maybe us openly talking about it, and sharing ways that they can be an ally to me. I find talking through scenarios that negatively impact us really help.

[36:41]

Gregory: “We need to acknowledge what has happened so that it's not glossed over".

Elinor: I hope that we will become more united and this crime wave based on race and antisemitism as well as toward other groups will end.

[42:17]

Greg: “For your listeners there's the 4D Tool. The four DS are delay, distract, delegate and direct. Research showed that oftentimes when people see something happening, they don't know what to do. We do have to stand up, which is why we have inclusion allies.”

[45:39]

Simma: “Share either a movie. film or TV show, or a song that reflects what's going on today around race and differences or allyship. For each of you, I want to know, do you have any?

Guests Bio

Greg Jenkins is a dedicated and passionate leader, facilitator, coach, and mentor dedicated to helping people and teams achieve higher levels of performance.  Greg completed a successful 28+ year US Army career that ranged from overseas duties in Germany, South Korea, and combat duty in Iraq to include several stateside assignments culminating in Washington D.C.  While serving at the Pentagon, Greg teamed up with the Army’s Diversity Task Force, and worked directly with the Secretary of the Army and Army Chief of Staff to help establish the Army’s Diversity program, policies, and marketing. 

Now spanning over three decades from military service to professional corporate consulting, Greg has trained, facilitated, mentored, and coached countless military service members, corporate employees and executive leaders of various industries including the Federal Government, US military, finance, insurance, communications, logistics and retail services.  Greg is a passionate veteran volunteer who enjoys actively mentoring and coaching business professionals, US military service members, veterans.

Social Media Links

LinkedIn

Twitter

Nirupa Netram is an Indian female immigrant attorney and certified diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI) in the workplace professional with more than two decades of experience in multiple sectors, including the corporate, nonprofit, government, and legal sectors, in the areas of DEI, human resources, program management, strategic planning, operations, compliance, and more. Nirupa earned her bachelor’s degree in business administration from Stetson University and her juris doctorate from Stetson University College of Law. She is the founder of Lotus Solutions LLC, a Florida-certified woman and minority-owned enterprise that helps local, national, and international organizations build and sustain DEI to ensure a fair and just workplace.

Elinor Stutz, CEO of Smooth Sale, delivers inspirational keynotes at conferences and authored three books: The International Best-Selling book, “Nice Girls DO Get the Sale: Relationship Building That Gets Results”, and her second best-selling book is “HIRED!” The third book, The Wish: A 360 Business Development Process to Fuel Sales provides a comprehensive plan for building a global audience.

Kred ranks Stutz as a Top 1% influencer; CEO World Magazine named Stutz as one of “The brightest sales minds to follow on Twitter” and she was featured on the cover of the March 2015 Sales and Service Excellence e-Magazine. Stutz’ blog is distributed among corporations and entrepreneurs alike. Both Bizhumm and NowISeeIt named the Smooth Sale Blog as one of the “Top 100 Most Innovative Sales Bloggers.” Her sales seminar was filmed for Eduson.TV. Stutz consults and speaks worldwide.

Host Bio

Simma Lieberman, The Inclusionist helps leaders create inclusive cultures. She is a consultant, speaker and facilitator and the host of the podcast, “Everyday Conversations on Race for Everyday People.”

Contact Simma@SimmaLieberman.com

Go to www.simmalieberman.com and www.raceconvo.com for more information

Simma is a member of and inspired by the global organization IAC (Inclusion Allies Coalition)

Resources:

IAC (Inclusion Allies Coalition)

Other episodes you'll enjoy:

Black Fatigue with Mary Frances Winters

Kamau Bell and Kate Schatz; Do the Anti-Racist Work

How to End Racial Bias in Media with Karen Hunter and Daniel Stedman

Connect with SIMMA:

Instagram

Facebook

YouTube

Twitter

LinkedIn

Website

Loved this episode? Leave us a review and rating 

Mary Frances Winters, one of the original thought leaders in the diversity field and cross-race conversations, joins me in this conversation on race.

We talk about:

• How the histories of Black and other people of color are being replaced in the USA
• How we need to look at race and racism from a systemic point of view and not just look at individual actions
• The state of the diversity conversation at work

Key topics:

[2:06] Why it’s important to talk about race, and why people are reluctant to talk about it

[4:54] Her new book, “Racial Justice at Work”

[8:25] How we all swim in the water of white supremacy

[10:25] The way history of people from non-dominant groups is being wiped out

Example: Florida banning diversity training, and Don’t say gay bills

[14:53] When will teaching history of slavery be forbidden in public schools

[16:51] The fear that this country is becoming too Black or Brown and will have too much political clout that drives white supremacy

[21:15] The difficulty of discussing the topic of race at work

[23:47] Self-loathing and internalized oppression

[25:16] When Mary Frances was called the N-word at the age of five and the reaction from her parents

[29:02] The real history and current state of diversity, (equity and inclusion) today

[32:02] Why Mary Frances is not a fan of adding more letters to Diversity, Equity and Inclusion

[34:17] How some people who are not qualified are being asked to be diversity leaders just because they belong to a dimension of diversity

Why do some people take on the role without the requisite expertise?

[40:35] What is generational wealth? What is informational wealth?

[46:42] The biggest challenge Mary Frances has seen from white women

Guest Bio

Mary Frances Winters is President and CEO of The Winters Group, Inc., a 38-year-old diversity and inclusion consulting firm, and the author of six books, including her best seller, We Can't Talk about That at Work!: How to Talk about Race, Religion, Politics, and Other Polarizing Topics; and her two latest books, Inclusive Conversations: Fostering Equity, Empathy, and Belonging Across Differences and Black Fatigue: How Racism Erodes the Mind, Body, and Spirit.

Learn More About The Winters Group on their website, here.

Follow Mary-Frances on LinkedIn.

Follow The Winters Group on Instagram, LinkedIn, Twitter, and Facebook.

Host Bio

Simma Lieberman, The Inclusionist helps leaders create inclusive cultures. She is a consultant, speaker and facilitator and the host of the podcast, “Everyday Conversations on Race for Everyday People.”

Contact Simma@SimmaLieberman.com

Go to www.simmalieberman.com and www.raceconvo.com for more information

Simma is a member of and inspired by the global organization IAC (Inclusion Allies Coalition)

In this Conversation on Race, Kamau Bell and Kate Schatz join me to talk about race, racism, and their new book they co-authored, “Do The Work, An Anti-Racist Workbook. Kate Schatz, author, activist, and public speaker. 

Kamau Bell is a well-known author, comedian, and political commentator on CNN.

Kate Schatz, is a feminist author, activist, and public speaker. 

(Because of their schedules, I had to interview each one separately)

Key topics with Kamau Bell

What made Kamau Bell and Kate Schatz write “Do The Work, An Anti-Racist Workbook,” together.

What happens after people buy anti-racism books, they often do nothing.

How white racists went after the success of Black people after slavery and tried to destroy them.

Why Black people are justified in being afraid of being stopped by police at a traffic stop.

Why when people say they don’t have a racist bone, it means they are racist.

A big list of small actions you can take. 

How you can help create a non-racist society.

Educate kids to prepare for the world.

Why you should buy “Do The Work, An Anti-Racist workbook.

Key topics with Kate Schatz 

Her first experience with race, and speaking up against racism to a group of white parents at a high school meeting. 

How her friends supported her anti-racism. 

how she keeps talking about white supremacy when she is told to stop.

Explaining white supremacy so other white people can understand it.

Ways in which the USA was founded on white supremacist beliefs.

What people can do to eliminate white supremacist beliefs?

Anti-racist actions everyone can take.

Guests Bio

W. Kamau Bell is a stand-up comedian and the director and executive producer of the four-part Showtime documentary, We Need To Talk About Cosby, which premiered at Sundance. He also hosts and executive-produces the Emmy Award winning CNN docu-series United Shades of America with W. Kamau Bell. His new book, Do The Work: An Antiracist Activity Book, co-written with Kate Schatz, is forthcoming from Workman in July. 

http://www.wkamaubell.com/about

Link to book

https://www.workman.com/products/do-the-work/paperback

https://www.amazon.com/Do-Work-Antiracist-Activity-Book/dp/1523514280

KATE SCHATZ is an author, activist, public speaker, educator, consultant, and queer feminist mama who's been talking, writing, and teaching about race, gender, social justice, and equity for many years. She's the New York Times bestselling author of the "Rad Women" book series (including Rad American Women A-Z, Rad Women Worldwide, and Rad American History A-Z), which have sold over 300,000 copies and been translated into four languages. Her book of fiction, Rid of Me: A Story, was published in 2007 as part of the cult-favorite 33 ⅓ series. She is the co-author of Do the Work: An Anti-Racist Activity Book, with W. Kamau Bell, the comedian and Emmy-winning host of CNN’s United Shades of America.

www.KateSchatz.com

Host Bio

Simma Lieberman, The Inclusionist helps leaders create inclusive cultures. She is a consultant, speaker and facilitator and the host of the podcast, “Everyday Conversations on Race for Everyday People.”

Contact Simma@SimmaLieberman.com

Go to www.simmalieberman.com and www.raceconvo.com for more information

Simma is a member of and inspired by the global organization IAC (Inclusion Allies Coalition)

Marcus Sawyerr, CEO of EQ Community joins me in this conversation on race. We talk about how he and EQ Community help Black and other People of Color who have been historically excluded from professional opportunities.

He shares his experience as a Black man in the UK, and  how he came to the US and founded EQ Community.

Key Topics include:

[4:16] Why it’s important for Black people to have access to business opportunities, and ways to get those opportunities.

[5:14] Why access to information is crucial, and how lack of access has resulted in exclusion for Black and other people of color.

[12:07]- Why and how he founded EQ Community.

How Marcus Sawyerr and EQ Community help People of Color get access to top jobs and opportunities instead of languishing in search firms

[14:00] How people in EQ Community get and give support to each other to excel

[15:39] Why and how Black and Brown people are underutilized even after they get hired

[16:38] Is exclusion a Black and White thing, is it an organizational DNA thing? A race thing?

[23:10] How Diversity and Inclusion is a superpower

[27:01] The difference between being a black man in the UK vs being a Black man in the US.

[30:22] How the system in the US is set up for People of Color not to win and how to change that.

Guest Bio

British-born CEO Marcus Sawyerr is founder of EQ Community, was an executive board member to Microsoft, former Head of Global Partnerships at The Adecco Group in Switzerland, and Senior Director at CareerBuilder. 

His latest tech platform is a unique online community that’s cultivating and connecting multicultural professionals interested in tech— accelerating diverse and inclusive executive recruitment, globally.

He can speak to timely topics, as:

-Hiring Trends across Tech in DE&I Metaverse 

-How Web3 and decentralization will impact future of work

-DEI program best practices for a winning team

- Myth-busting the big lie about “lowering the bar“ to attain inclusive hiring and diverse workforce

- The power and impact of inclusion and equitable recruiting

- The importance of developing nuanced and strategic approach to implementing diverse hiring panels

- And how to structure, implement, measure, and sustain equitable and inclusive attraction and selection practices

Lastly, Marcus is featured in publications: Insight, The EQ Report, American Express, Recruiter.com, LinkedIn, and Inside Big Data.

Host Bio:

Simma Lieberman, The Inclusionist helps leaders create inclusive cultures. She is a consultant, speaker and facilitator and the host of the podcast, “Everyday Conversations on Race for Everyday People.”
Contact Simma@SimmaLieberman.com
Go to www.simmalieberman.com and www.raceconvo.com for more information
Simma is a member of and inspired by the global organization IAC (Inclusion Allies Coalition) 

Suhag Shukla joins me in this conversation on race to answer the question, “Is it racist to talk about race?” Suhag is the executive director of the Hindu American Foundation. She's also on the Homeland Security, faith-based security and communications Foundation. And she's a leading voice for civil and human rights and religious freedom.

Key topics:

[1.45] How she grew up straddling both a Hindu identity and an American identity and realizing that the core teachings of Hinduism and being an American fit together.

[5:11] The so-called “founding fathers” who didn’t consider Black and Native American people full human beings.

[5:46] First experience with racism during the oil crisis in the 1970s and being "othered."

[7:51] Is caste and/or asking about caste racist? The history of caste and Indian society as well as the British and Portuguese in India.

[10:51] Social Identities, castes, and religious traditions

[12:11] Commonalities in communities and castes in India

How people in India identify today beyond caste, who has social capital based on class

[15:11] Myths of caste and the fluidity of castes and engagement across different group

The complexity of Indian society, and the assumptions that people outside of India make about people in India

American society tries to simplify economic and social societies in India without any real understanding

[25.48]  US school textbooks teach about other cultures and countries like they are stuck in time, and not what’s happening now

People in the US don’t understand Indian culture today and even asked Suhag if she has electricity in India if her parents arranged her marriage while she was in elementary school

Being assigned a caste by a reporter in a recent interview based on her last name and how she confronted the reporter

Preconceived notions about her. because of her Indian heritage and culture and asking racist questions

[33:13]  The recent survey by the Carnegie Endowment for peace, conducted one of the first-ever comprehensive surveys done of Indian Americans and Indian American attitudes

shows that with each subsequent generation, there's less and less affinity towards identifying by caste. And  when it comes to discrimination, close to 50% of the people responding out of 1000 people in the survey reported having faced discrimination in the year previously

[39:55] Institutionalizing of caste at Brandeis, Harvard, CSU and other universities. Suhag’s view of why it is racist to ask about caste and include it in a protected category- that it has never been an issue in education

Guest Bio

Suhag Shukla, Esq., Executive Director, is a co-founder of HAF. She holds a BA in Religion and JD from the University of Florida. Ms. Shukla has helped steer the Foundation to being recognized as a leading voice for civil rights, human rights, and religious freedom. She’s been instrumental in the development of a broad range of educational materials and position papers and blogs for a variety of platforms. Ms. Shukla has served on the Boards of the Nirvana Center, Main Line Indian Association, and YWCA of Minneapolis. She was also a member of the Department of Homeland Security Faith-Based Security and Communications Subcommittee. Ms. Shukla is actively involved with Chinmaya Mission, serves on the board of the Bhutanese American Organization of Philadelphia, and is a thought partner for the Interfaith Center of Greater Philadelphia’s Paths to Understanding Public Art Initiative. Shukla is a member of the board for the National Museum of American Religion and serves on religious advisory committees for the Council on Foreign Relations, the Humane Society of the United States, and the Department of Homeland Security’s Subcommittee for the Prevention of Targeted Violence Against Faith-Based Communities and is a member of the First Amendment Center’s Committee on Religious Liberty and the United Nations Women’s Gender Equality and Religion platform. Shukla was named one of twelve “faith leaders to watch in 2017” by the Center for American Progress.

Email: Info@HinduAmerican.org

Host Bio

Simma Lieberman, The Inclusionist helps leaders create inclusive cultures. She is a consultant, speaker and facilitator and the host of the podcast, “Everyday Conversations on Race for Everyday People.”
Contact Simma@SimmaLieberman.com
Go to www.simmalieberman.com and www.raceconvo.com for more information
Simma is a member of and inspired by the global organization IAC (Inclusion Allies Coalition) 

Michael Motta, is a former executive in the record business. He was instrumental in breaking open the careers of musicians like Snoop Dogg, Beastie Boys, Megadeath and Bonnie Raitt.

After years in the business, he realized it was treacherous to his health and left after achieving major success. He also saw the systemic racism and inequality of music airtime, radio station resources. Listen to his story in this conversation on race.

Today he is the regional manager of Mayweather Boxing and Fitness in Los Angeles, CA, USA.

Michael considers himself a “a man for all nations.” He is African, Sicilian, Cuban, and Jewish. Raised in the Bronx by four strong Black women, he  learned to be a strong Black man.

Key topics:

[5:00] How he was bullied by different groups because of his skin color, not being white enough for the white kids and not dark enough for the Black kids.

[7:12] Incredibly, Michael just two years ago that he is fifty-one percent Jewish. Hear how he found his Jewish father and a sister he didn’t know he had. However before finding that out, he always had connections to Jewish people, and his son’s mother is Jewish.

[16:12] What made him finally decide to leave the music industry-
Motta breaks down the systemic racism of the music industry and the segregation of the radio stations.

[20:53] We talk some of our favorite genres of music along with artists we love

[29:06]

• White kids who listen to hip-hop but don’t care about the politics, and still act racist towards people of color.They spend money on the music but don’t understand history or the message.
• Where to find conscious rap and hip-hop since it’s not played on commercial radio or given airplay

[34:50] • His experience in college at a mostly Jewish school

[38:55] • What it’s like being Black with light skin. How he wasn’t accepted in different places and what he did to survive.

[40:44] Race and racism and how it’s about fear

[41:37] Why he’s bothered by gentrification and it’s impact on non-white communities.

[45:35] Solutions and suggestions to end racism and actions we can all take

Guest Bio
A 20-year industry veteran, Michael hails from the Bronx and is of Black, Hispanic and Caucasian heritage.  He earned a scholarship to Brandeis where he played varsity basketball and then went on to earn an MBA at Boston College.  Mike is an accomplished martial artist, boxer and strength and conditioning coach – as well as an expert on nutrition counseling and healthy living -- all skills he attributes to his ability to combat stage four prostate cancer.  Prior to his fitness career Mike was an accomplished record industry executive and was head of promotion and marketing for four record labels, executive vice president for several film companies and is an accomplished screen writer.  He’s the proud father of one son, Nick.

Host Bio

Simma Lieberman, The Inclusionist helps leaders create inclusive cultures. She is a consultant, speaker and facilitator and the host of the podcast, “Everyday Conversations on Race for Everyday People.”
Contact Simma@SimmaLieberman.com
Go to www.simmalieberman.com and www.raceconvo.com for more information
Simma is a member of and inspired by the global organization IAC (Inclusion Allies Coalition)